The bottom line is, I think it is perfectly reasonable of me to think that when Rand balefired Graendals palace, he did this. He used a small amount of what CK could offer to extend the balefire streams width, so that he would take out the entire palace in "one go". But he kept the total strength as low as possible to minimise the damage since he did not want to unmake existence just yet. In doing so he got Graendal (probably) but did not cause immense damage. Some yes, but not anywhere close enough to bring the pattern anywhere near to total destruction which is what Min and Nynaeve seemed to think.
I think there are two factors in Balefire:
1 - Strength (how far back in time the Pattern is burnt out)
2 - Area (how much the balefire affects - this includes the range of the BF)
I see no reason to believe that Rand moderated his use of the CK. After all, he is taking out one of the top Forsaken, and before this, he spreads the knowledge of Balefire to his Asha'man (Narishma), suggesting that while he knows it is dangerous, he doesn't really realise why or how much it is.
Now, Brandon has commented on how far back in time balefire can take things - we know that at most, it couldn't have taken Graendal back more than a week or so (Brandon said a day or two IIRC), but we know that the balefire was strong enough to remove the Compulsion placed on Ramshalan (probably 20-60 minutes earlier). Note that this minimum is roughly equal to or greater than the amount of time that Rand restored in TFoH with Rahvin.
With Rahvin, Rand used at most 1 metre squared of balefire (likely less, but we'll be generous). We also know that Natrin's Barrow is a large estate, so assuming that Rand's target area was 1km squared is not unreasonable.
1km squared = 1 million metres. This strongly suggests that he is definitely drawing deeply on the Choedan Kal.
----
Regarding the destruction of cities in the War of Power, I'd explain it in two parts:
1 - Cities in our world are growing more and more densely populated - AoL cities would have been similar. One square km could hold millions of people in an AoL skyscraper. So there is less area to cover.
2 - We never hear how far back the population was taken. For all we know, the balefire streams were broad but far weaker than Rand's, only taking them back seconds or perhaps even less.
Rand the psycho?
- 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM
1766 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM
1175 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM
1007 Views
Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM
1009 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM
1063 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM
962 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM
1066 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM
978 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM
1036 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM
970 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM
1030 Views
Of course, I agree with you, esp since I just put forth the idea you support earlier in the thread.
- 11/01/2010 04:58:26 PM
1473 Views
Rand crossed a line
- 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM
1071 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently?
- 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM
1051 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM
511 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes.
- 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM
968 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM
522 Views
LOL ... super-death!
- 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM
907 Views
Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM
1048 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM
1000 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM
997 Views
Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
992 Views
let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM
1003 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM
972 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM
1044 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM
939 Views
yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 12:34:34 AM
944 Views
Re: yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 01:13:40 AM
902 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
- 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
1044 Views
Sigh. What mass murder?
- 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM
882 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM
951 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM
983 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM
985 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM
913 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM
995 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM
956 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM
880 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS!
- 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM
1045 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
997 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol:
- 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM
1007 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again
- 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM
1072 Views
Meh
- 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM
905 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM
907 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM
998 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM
974 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good...
- 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM
968 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM
892 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM
934 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM
991 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM
917 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM
1075 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1037 Views
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1037 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument.
- 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM
973 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people
- 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM
1000 Views
I concede
- 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
906 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning.
- 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM
1041 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM
982 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
917 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
- 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM
994 Views
You are treating Graendal's "pets" as though they were enemy combatants
- 07/01/2010 03:40:03 PM
1046 Views
Like I give a damn what a group of professional killers would do.
- 08/01/2010 11:39:11 PM
913 Views
Graendal captured these people as part of the Shadows offensive, Operation Chaos Rules
- 09/01/2010 12:00:40 AM
1211 Views
Well, I still liked your first argument. It's a freaking war. The argument ...
- 07/01/2010 07:08:53 PM
958 Views
