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Re: Yes it was. Datakim Send a noteboard - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
Rand doesn't know; even his explanation of why he did this did not include greater knowledge of the mechanism. He just said Graendal was so dangerous that killing innocent souls to get rid of her was worthwhile. He's not the Creator, doesn't understand the higher laws of reality and neither are Nynaeve or Min. Truly, I think Cadsuane hit the nail on the head when she backed Min up - if Rand himself utilized balefire in such a way that reality wa destabilized and the Bore was torn open, it wouldn't matter if the balefired souls would be Reborn in one, two or whatever Turnings of the Wheel RJ specified - the Dark One would have destroyed reality in any case, and it would be Rand's fault.


Are you sure he does not know? AoLeres developed Balefire, LTT has much of that knowledge which means right now, so does Rand. It seems reasonable enough to me for Rand to know full well that balefire does not kill souls. And I have something which strongly suggests that this is true.

Liah.

In Shadar Logoth, Liah is caught by Mashadar. Rand has reason to believe that Mashadar is going to eat her soul, so in order to save her he destroys her with balefire, burning her thread back to before Mashadar caught her, killing Liah, but saving her soul.

Rand even mentions this specific event when she balefires Graendal and calls it a mercy, which it was. Now consider, if Rand believed or even had a reason to doubt that balefire destroyed souls, why would he have used that on Liah. Using balefire on Liah makes sense only if he thinks that death by balefire is better than death by Mashadar.

No, I think he knows full well, probably from LTT and research done in AoL what balefire does, and that it does not kill souls.


I mean, technically, carrying your line of argument to it's ultimate conclusion, it wouldn't even matter if you balefired a Forsaken because they would come back, anyway. They'd be removed from the field, but there are quite a lot of twisted entities such as Shaidar Haran or Slayer that technically speaking, are much more difficult for a Third Age channeler to comprehend or deal with.


I am not entirely sure I understand what you are saying here. I mean sure, balefired forsaken come back. But they dont come back as those personalities, and they come as new infants so they are no longer his enemies at that point, even if the soul is the same. Which is the whole point of using balefire.


I basically think, in the context of the overall story, that the WoT world is largely a post-apocalyptic one, and destabilizing the Pattern in any way when it is already frayed to the breaking point is not a good idea.


Not even to get rid of a forsaken who might destablize it even more? I have never claimed that Rand did no damage, just that thanks to LTT and the knowledge of balefire he has from the WoP, he is better equipped to judge the damage done to the pattern than anyone else alive.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1705 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1109 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1107 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1133 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1033 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 930 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1046 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 955 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 944 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 884 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 897 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 849 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 884 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 873 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1004 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 907 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 983 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 911 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 967 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 903 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 961 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 872 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 994 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1002 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 943 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1029 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 838 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 981 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 477 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 909 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 922 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 874 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 493 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 845 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 487 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 865 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 834 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 981 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 904 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 932 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 931 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 920 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 918 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 962 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 870 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 984 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 819 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 924 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 884 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 911 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 919 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 858 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 940 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 879 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 811 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 980 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 927 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 926 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 877 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 910 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 821 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 839 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1005 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 839 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 843 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 930 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 896 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 909 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 967 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 834 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 859 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 922 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 855 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 999 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 959 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 902 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 930 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 838 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 965 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 905 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 920 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 843 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 918 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1095 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1223 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 815 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 866 Views

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