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Re: Yes it was. Datakim Send a noteboard - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
Rand doesn't know; even his explanation of why he did this did not include greater knowledge of the mechanism. He just said Graendal was so dangerous that killing innocent souls to get rid of her was worthwhile. He's not the Creator, doesn't understand the higher laws of reality and neither are Nynaeve or Min. Truly, I think Cadsuane hit the nail on the head when she backed Min up - if Rand himself utilized balefire in such a way that reality wa destabilized and the Bore was torn open, it wouldn't matter if the balefired souls would be Reborn in one, two or whatever Turnings of the Wheel RJ specified - the Dark One would have destroyed reality in any case, and it would be Rand's fault.


Are you sure he does not know? AoLeres developed Balefire, LTT has much of that knowledge which means right now, so does Rand. It seems reasonable enough to me for Rand to know full well that balefire does not kill souls. And I have something which strongly suggests that this is true.

Liah.

In Shadar Logoth, Liah is caught by Mashadar. Rand has reason to believe that Mashadar is going to eat her soul, so in order to save her he destroys her with balefire, burning her thread back to before Mashadar caught her, killing Liah, but saving her soul.

Rand even mentions this specific event when she balefires Graendal and calls it a mercy, which it was. Now consider, if Rand believed or even had a reason to doubt that balefire destroyed souls, why would he have used that on Liah. Using balefire on Liah makes sense only if he thinks that death by balefire is better than death by Mashadar.

No, I think he knows full well, probably from LTT and research done in AoL what balefire does, and that it does not kill souls.


I mean, technically, carrying your line of argument to it's ultimate conclusion, it wouldn't even matter if you balefired a Forsaken because they would come back, anyway. They'd be removed from the field, but there are quite a lot of twisted entities such as Shaidar Haran or Slayer that technically speaking, are much more difficult for a Third Age channeler to comprehend or deal with.


I am not entirely sure I understand what you are saying here. I mean sure, balefired forsaken come back. But they dont come back as those personalities, and they come as new infants so they are no longer his enemies at that point, even if the soul is the same. Which is the whole point of using balefire.


I basically think, in the context of the overall story, that the WoT world is largely a post-apocalyptic one, and destabilizing the Pattern in any way when it is already frayed to the breaking point is not a good idea.


Not even to get rid of a forsaken who might destablize it even more? I have never claimed that Rand did no damage, just that thanks to LTT and the knowledge of balefire he has from the WoP, he is better equipped to judge the damage done to the pattern than anyone else alive.
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Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1738 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1149 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1148 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1157 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1078 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 970 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1071 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 977 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 967 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 928 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 935 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 894 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 918 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 911 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1030 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 932 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 1032 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 949 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 1005 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 949 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 1002 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 901 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 1020 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1036 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 986 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1079 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 875 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 1014 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 497 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 945 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 954 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 907 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 511 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 885 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 508 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 902 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 862 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 1014 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 964 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 959 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 967 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 967 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 944 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 1016 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 899 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 1014 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 847 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 956 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 922 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 946 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 952 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 881 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 971 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 917 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 851 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 1015 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 968 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 972 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 910 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 947 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 858 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 872 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1040 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 882 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 878 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 967 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 942 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 937 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 1000 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 866 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 899 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 951 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 884 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 1034 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 1005 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 941 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 967 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 869 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 1004 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 940 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 955 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 887 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 956 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1134 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1263 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 847 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 892 Views

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