Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
Not even to get rid of a forsaken who might destablize it even more? I have never claimed that Rand did no damage, just that thanks to LTT and the knowledge of balefire he has from the WoP, he is better equipped to judge the damage done to the pattern than anyone else alive.
I'll have to say a big 'Meh' to this - LTT didn't understand a lot of things, one of which was A) how to defeat the Dark One and B) how to nullify the effect the Dark One had on the Pattern. I tend to think how the Pattern (and balefire) works are something that only the Creator (ie: Robert Jordan) ultimately knew.
I think this may be a situation similar to the mass-suicide of the Amayar wherein RJ was surprised more readers weren't affected by this in a more visceral way, but I think he may have underestimated exactly how many readers would quickly become apologists for whatever insane horror Rand unleashed because he is the "Hero"/main protagonist.
I think this is ultimately one of those sci-Fi author-lead questions like "Where is your humanity!?" and someone responds, "In the Fiction section. We go to Sci-Fi/fantasy to indulge our feelings of superiority, our need for clear heroes to root for and our need for violent spectacle."
From the WoT FAQ regarding balefire:
"John Walter Biles explains: The Pattern unravels permanently because in a war of mass destruction with balefire, you can yank threads out of the Pattern faster than they can be replaced. Yeah, they can EVENTUALLY be reborn, but unless the total population of all of creation is static, then they won't be reborn instantly. More importantly, it screws up causality. That's why the Pattern can unravel; it's not that you run out of threads, it is that if you nuke an entire city, every consequence of every action by everyone in the entire city is suddenly undone back to point X. Given the amount of balefire nuking a city takes, you can make quite a mess. Do enough damage to the Pattern faster than it can repair itself, and it still comes apart."
The reason I post that explanation is that it isn't the who, what, when and where that seems to matter, it is the effect of burning out large populations with balefire that causing the Pattern to unravel. So the magnitude of what Rand did really wasn't lessened because he might have killed Graendal - it was worse because he was messing with the laws of time and space.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 07/01/2010 at 12:10:34 AM
Rand the psycho?
06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM
- 1663 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions.
06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM
- 1067 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions.
06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM
- 898 Views
Wait!
06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM
- 1022 Views
Re: Wait!
06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM
- 929 Views
Re: Wait!
06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM
- 899 Views
Re: Wait!
06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM
- 850 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM
- 974 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM
- 879 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM
- 950 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM
- 857 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM
- 925 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM
- 858 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM
- 917 Views
Of course, I agree with you, esp since I just put forth the idea you support earlier in the thread.
11/01/2010 04:58:26 PM
- 1333 Views
Rand crossed a line
06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM
- 964 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently?
06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM
- 944 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM*
06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM
- 454 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes.
06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM
- 874 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM*
06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM
- 482 Views
LOL ... super-death!
06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM
- 822 Views
Yes it was.
06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM
- 934 Views
Re: Yes it was.
06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM
- 854 Views
Re: Yes it was.
06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM
- 897 Views
Re: Yes it was.
06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
- 891 Views
let me ask the question in a different way
06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM
- 896 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way
06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM
- 888 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts
06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM
- 912 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts
07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM
- 841 Views
yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
07/01/2010 12:34:34 AM
- 829 Views
Re: yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
07/01/2010 01:13:40 AM
- 803 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
- 938 Views
Sigh. What mass murder?
07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM
- 788 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM
- 863 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM
- 872 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM
- 887 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM
- 832 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM
- 899 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM
- 848 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM
- 784 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS!
07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM
- 956 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
- 891 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol:
07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM
- 877 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again
06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM
- 970 Views
Meh
06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM
- 808 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM
- 815 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM
- 897 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM
- 858 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good...
07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM
- 864 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM
- 803 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM
- 814 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM
- 880 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM
- 828 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM
- 968 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions
07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
- 918 Views

Nice way to avoid the argument.
07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM
- 867 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people
07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM
- 907 Views
I concede
07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
- 807 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning.
07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM
- 914 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow,
07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM
- 894 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow,
07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
- 818 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM
- 896 Views
You are treating Graendal's "pets" as though they were enemy combatants
07/01/2010 03:40:03 PM
- 949 Views
Like I give a damn what a group of professional killers would do.
08/01/2010 11:39:11 PM
- 812 Views
Graendal captured these people as part of the Shadows offensive, Operation Chaos Rules
09/01/2010 12:00:40 AM
- 1121 Views
Well, I still liked your first argument. It's a freaking war. The argument ...
07/01/2010 07:08:53 PM
- 849 Views