Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
Not even to get rid of a forsaken who might destablize it even more? I have never claimed that Rand did no damage, just that thanks to LTT and the knowledge of balefire he has from the WoP, he is better equipped to judge the damage done to the pattern than anyone else alive.
I'll have to say a big 'Meh' to this - LTT didn't understand a lot of things, one of which was A) how to defeat the Dark One and B) how to nullify the effect the Dark One had on the Pattern. I tend to think how the Pattern (and balefire) works are something that only the Creator (ie: Robert Jordan) ultimately knew.
I think this may be a situation similar to the mass-suicide of the Amayar wherein RJ was surprised more readers weren't affected by this in a more visceral way, but I think he may have underestimated exactly how many readers would quickly become apologists for whatever insane horror Rand unleashed because he is the "Hero"/main protagonist.
I think this is ultimately one of those sci-Fi author-lead questions like "Where is your humanity!?" and someone responds, "In the Fiction section. We go to Sci-Fi/fantasy to indulge our feelings of superiority, our need for clear heroes to root for and our need for violent spectacle."
From the WoT FAQ regarding balefire:
"John Walter Biles explains: The Pattern unravels permanently because in a war of mass destruction with balefire, you can yank threads out of the Pattern faster than they can be replaced. Yeah, they can EVENTUALLY be reborn, but unless the total population of all of creation is static, then they won't be reborn instantly. More importantly, it screws up causality. That's why the Pattern can unravel; it's not that you run out of threads, it is that if you nuke an entire city, every consequence of every action by everyone in the entire city is suddenly undone back to point X. Given the amount of balefire nuking a city takes, you can make quite a mess. Do enough damage to the Pattern faster than it can repair itself, and it still comes apart."
The reason I post that explanation is that it isn't the who, what, when and where that seems to matter, it is the effect of burning out large populations with balefire that causing the Pattern to unravel. So the magnitude of what Rand did really wasn't lessened because he might have killed Graendal - it was worse because he was messing with the laws of time and space.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 07/01/2010 at 12:10:34 AM
Rand the psycho?
- 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM
1741 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM
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Re: I cannot follow your assumptions.
- 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM
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Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM
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Re: Wait!
- 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM
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I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM
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Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM
933 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM
1034 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM
952 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM
1007 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM
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Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
- 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM
1005 Views
Of course, I agree with you, esp since I just put forth the idea you support earlier in the thread.
- 11/01/2010 04:58:26 PM
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Rand crossed a line
- 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM
1038 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently?
- 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM
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No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM
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But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes.
- 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM
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No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM*
- 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM
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LOL ... super-death!
- 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM
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Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM
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Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM
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Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM
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Re: Yes it was.
- 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
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let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM
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Re: let me ask the question in a different way
- 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM
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actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM
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Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts
- 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM
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yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 12:34:34 AM
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Re: yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
- 07/01/2010 01:13:40 AM
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Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
- 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
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Sigh. What mass murder?
- 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM
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In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM
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Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM
947 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM
953 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM
883 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM
973 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM
918 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM
853 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS!
- 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM
1017 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
- 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
970 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol:
- 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM
973 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again
- 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM
1043 Views
Meh
- 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM
884 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM
880 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM
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Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM
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I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good...
- 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM
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Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
- 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM
868 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM
902 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM
953 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM
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Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
- 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM
1036 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1008 Views
- 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
1008 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument.
- 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM
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I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people
- 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM
969 Views
I concede
- 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
871 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning.
- 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM
1006 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM
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Re: Morals are subjective anyhow,
- 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
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I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
- 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM
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You are treating Graendal's "pets" as though they were enemy combatants
- 07/01/2010 03:40:03 PM
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Like I give a damn what a group of professional killers would do.
- 08/01/2010 11:39:11 PM
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Graendal captured these people as part of the Shadows offensive, Operation Chaos Rules
- 09/01/2010 12:00:40 AM
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Well, I still liked your first argument. It's a freaking war. The argument ...
- 07/01/2010 07:08:53 PM
928 Views
