Active Users:1713 Time:31/10/2025 10:41:08 AM
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
A couple hundred people is nothing, look at wars in the real world many more than a few hundred civilians die.


And that is how the slippery slope begins. These types of things tend to start with that line of reasoning, with the line of reasoning escalating. If I was a more religious person, I could argue that in the real world, we aren't talking about souls but physical bodies, and as terrible as mass murder is their souls would still be saved by a God somewhere. What Rand did was demolish those souls with little understanding if those would ever come back - judging from the behavior of him and his companions they all assumed that those souls were gone forever, and I think it's unfortunate that so many of the arguments here bring in RJ's statement to justify it. If President Bush had decided to nuke Afghanistan and Iraq saying that the souls would be reborn in another few generations, we'd call him insane, yet in the bounds of this fictional world there are too many people IMO willing to concede that this is rational. It was not a rational act. It was the act of the madman and power mad tyrant that Rand stood on the threshhold of becoming.

We actually saw this slipper slope escalate in the books: After balefiring the hundreds of people at Graendals' palace, Rand later threatens to rain fire using the Choedan Kal on the Borderlander army which consisted of thousands of people, and later even then he considers to wipe out the headquarters of the Seanchan incursion with balefire - that is a population that dwarfed what was in Graendal's place.

The problem with rationalizing these types of things is that you lose your humanity by denying that other people have a valid right to existence.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
Reply to message
Rand the psycho? - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM 1705 Views
I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM 1109 Views
On Balefire - 06/01/2010 04:43:18 AM 1107 Views
Good point - 06/01/2010 05:04:26 AM 1133 Views
On the nature of BaleFire - 06/01/2010 03:32:25 PM 1033 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM 930 Views
Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM 1046 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM 955 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM 944 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM 884 Views
Re: Wait! - 06/01/2010 03:55:01 PM 897 Views
I disagree - 06/01/2010 05:42:44 PM 849 Views
Re: I disagree - 06/01/2010 06:41:08 PM 884 Views
Re: I disagree - 07/01/2010 04:42:40 AM 873 Views
I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM 1004 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM 907 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM 983 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM 911 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM 967 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM 903 Views
Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire. - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM 961 Views
I agree with Templar - 09/01/2010 04:36:20 PM 872 Views
Re: I cannot follow your assumptions. - 06/01/2010 07:57:54 AM 994 Views
Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM 1002 Views
Re: Rand crossed a line - 06/01/2010 04:16:12 PM 943 Views
But... - 06/01/2010 04:34:02 PM 1029 Views
Re: But... - 06/01/2010 06:14:25 PM 838 Views
Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently? - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM 981 Views
No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM* - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM 477 Views
But not in this turning of the Wheel. So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes. - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM 909 Views
What? - 06/01/2010 06:20:56 PM 922 Views
Where did you get that? - 06/01/2010 07:09:38 PM 874 Views
No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM* - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM 493 Views
LOL ... super-death! - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM 845 Views
Hah! *NM* - 07/01/2010 12:06:07 AM 487 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:20 AM 865 Views
It makes me think of History of the World Part 1 - 07/01/2010 12:53:33 AM 834 Views
Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM 981 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM 904 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM 932 Views
Re: Yes it was. - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM 931 Views
let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM 920 Views
Re: let me ask the question in a different way - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM 918 Views
actually that quote supports my thoughts - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM 962 Views
Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM 870 Views
Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take. - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM 984 Views
Sigh. What mass murder? - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM 819 Views
you are kidding right? - 07/01/2010 12:19:58 AM 924 Views
In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM 884 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM 911 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM 919 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM 858 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM 940 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM 879 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM 811 Views
Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS! - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM 980 Views
Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully. - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM 927 Views
OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM 926 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 01:53:25 PM 877 Views
Re: OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol: - 08/01/2010 02:56:41 PM 910 Views
What might work... - 08/01/2010 12:35:17 PM 821 Views
Re: What might work... - 08/01/2010 11:38:09 PM 839 Views
Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM 1005 Views
Meh - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM 839 Views
The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM 843 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM 930 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM 896 Views
I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good... - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM 909 Views
*laughs behind hand* - 07/01/2010 12:05:54 AM 967 Views
Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them! - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM 834 Views
I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM 859 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM 922 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM 855 Views
Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM 999 Views
right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM 959 Views
Nice way to avoid the argument. - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM 902 Views
I'm just done talking in circles. You seem to think that because people - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM 930 Views
I concede - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM 838 Views
You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning. - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM 965 Views
Tee hee. - 07/01/2010 05:28:52 AM 905 Views
Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM 920 Views
Re: Morals are subjective anyhow, - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM 844 Views
I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM 918 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM 1095 Views
Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM 1223 Views
Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 11/01/2010 04:47:10 PM 815 Views
Re: Your assertions weaken your overall argument. - 18/01/2010 12:49:26 PM 866 Views

Reply to Message