Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
		Cannoli Send a noteboard - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM
		
	Even Angelmar?  Even Hurin?  On a purely clinical basis, I agree that the army has shown little in the way of good faith towards Rand - but that's only considering half the equation.
 And the only half worth considering.The Borderlanders have been protecting Randland for a Millennia.  Finally, the Dragon is reborn and they expect some support, but until the end of KoD, there is none.  Instead, they hear about more trouble to the south - the False Dragon Taim who had killed thousands of Saldeans has been made the HEAD of a legion of insane male channellers, all by order of the Dragon, the man they are relying on.  The White Tower is split and offers no support, the other countries are reeling from the Seanchan and Aiel invasions, so isn't it logical for the Borderlanders to assume that the real threat isn't in Trolloc hordes (especially if 50 channelers can kill 100,000 Trollocs a la KoD), but rather in the dissension and division to the south.
 I fully understand this, and have justified their position at length elsewhere. But if we have to excuse their ignorance, we have to give Rand the same benefit.  He has no more way of knowing their good intentions than they have of knowing his.  If Rand was completely sane, he would immediately see this.  But his astrologically-proportioned ego and paranoia are blinding him.
 He is the one indispensible figure in the struggle against the Shadow. His ego is not out of proportion when this fact is taken into consideration. And it isn't paranoia if they really ARE out to get you. Everywhere Rand turns, people are lashing out at him in favor of their own interests.  He gave the Borderlanders a chance.  He owes them no more than that.So instead of at least asking Hurin to bring him more information, he considers destroying an entire city and army camp.  Not everyone in that camp is even a soldier - many are cooks, cleaners, wives (who we are told accompany their husbands in the case of Saldea), children, who have all been led their by trusted monarchs who have never done wrong by them.
 Sucks to be them. It does not matter how trustworthy an individual is - if they lead you wrong, you still suffer the consequences.  The German military had never been "done wrong" by their political leadership up until World War Two.  Should they be excused their participation in the atrocities they committed?  You don't get a pass for blindly following a leader when you step off a cliff, and people who decide to follow an army have to accept the risks that come with it.  Rand did not invite any of them to come, and he is not responsible for their safety.  Rather, it is the obligation of the rulers who choose to hide behind the skirts of all thos cooks and wives, rather than come to meet Rand in person and risk their own skins.For Rand to jump instantly to feeling distrust, anger and fear towards the Borderlanders is more than just disconcerting.
 Given all he has been through, and the degrees of betrayal and letdown he has experienced, NOT reacting that way would require superhuman virtue and tolerance. 
			
		
	
		Cannoli  
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
	
	
	
	
	
	
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
			Rand the psycho?
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 02:53:30 AM
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			I cannot follow your assumptions.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 04:07:33 AM
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			Re: I cannot follow your assumptions.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 04:59:12 AM
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			Wait!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 05:10:33 AM
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			Re: Wait!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 05:20:02 AM
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			Re: Wait!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 05:58:00 AM
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			Re: Wait!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:46:13 AM
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			I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 07:30:56 AM
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			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 03:32:24 PM
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			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 09:52:47 PM
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			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:19:56 PM
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			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:21:50 AM
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			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:56:26 AM
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			Re: I doubt he meant 'in one go' as a single stream of balefire.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 01:46:16 AM
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			Of course, I agree with you, esp since I just put forth the idea you support earlier in the thread.
	    
	         - 11/01/2010 04:58:26 PM
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			Rand crossed a line
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 02:36:42 PM
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			Doesn't Balefire remove your thread from the Pattern permanently?
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 02:55:38 PM
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			No, RJ stated balefired people can be reborn. *NM*
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 03:26:00 PM
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			But not in this turning of the Wheel.  So they'd miss out on MANY lifetimes.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 05:46:04 PM
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			No, balefire just kills you backwards in time. It is not super-death. *NM*
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 09:58:18 PM
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			LOL ... super-death!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:59:31 PM
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			Yes it was.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 06:51:15 PM
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			Re: Yes it was.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 07:16:14 PM
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			Re: Yes it was.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 08:58:40 PM
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			Re: Yes it was.
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 10:47:11 PM
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			let me ask the question in a different way
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:26:43 PM
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			Re: let me ask the question in a different way
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:40:56 PM
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			actually that quote supports my thoughts
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:50:40 PM
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			Re: actually that quote supports my thoughts
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:10:07 AM
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			yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:34:34 AM
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			Re: yet it could take him some undetermined amount of time to figure out your dead?
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 01:13:40 AM
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			Meh. I just think advocating mass-murder is the opposite direction RJ meant for this to take.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:00:44 AM
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			Sigh. What mass murder?
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:15:01 AM
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			In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:14:32 PM
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			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:57:43 PM
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			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 07:13:21 PM
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			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 07:52:24 PM
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			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 08:56:43 PM
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			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:26:01 PM
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			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:30:45 PM
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			Personally I'm kind of sick of Rand being the only person killing FS!
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:42:57 PM
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			Re: In this book Rand was a wimp and a bully.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 09:56:02 PM
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			OK I'm sorry but this gets a huge ROFL :lol:
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 10:30:19 PM
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			Yes. Anakin Skywalker all over again
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:01:02 PM
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			Meh
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:30:24 PM
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			The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:33:32 PM
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			Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:50:37 PM
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			Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
	    
	         - 06/01/2010 11:55:03 PM
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			I do have to guiltily say, though, that if Rand had balefired the Seanchan and THEN became good...
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:03:20 AM
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			Re: The worst part about his atrocities is his rationalizing them!
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:23:11 AM
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			I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 12:52:25 AM
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			Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 01:24:32 AM
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			Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:33:52 PM
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			Re: I don't think Rand or LTT (who has/have) little capacity for Healing
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 04:28:18 PM
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			right cause all Generals are so well versed in medical conditions  - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
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	         - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
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	     - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
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	         - 07/01/2010 09:44:09 PM
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			Nice way to avoid the argument.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 10:00:17 PM
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			I'm just done talking in circles.  You seem to think that because people
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 11:53:05 PM
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			I concede
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 01:09:11 AM
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			You weren't wrong overall, but there were some serious flaws in your reasoning.
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 02:43:17 AM
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			Morals are subjective anyhow,
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 06:23:09 AM
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			Re: Morals are subjective anyhow,
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:23:59 PM
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			I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
	    
	         - 09/01/2010 12:00:02 AM
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			Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
	    
	         - 09/01/2010 05:56:16 PM
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			Re: I have religious beliefs and that is an absurd contention
		
	         - 18/01/2010 01:00:23 PM
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			You are treating Graendal's "pets" as though they were enemy combatants
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 03:40:03 PM
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			Like I give a damn what a group of professional killers would do.
	    
	         - 08/01/2010 11:39:11 PM
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			Graendal captured these people as part of the Shadows offensive,  Operation Chaos Rules
	    
	         - 09/01/2010 12:00:40 AM
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			Well, I still liked your first argument. It's a freaking war. The argument ...
	    
	         - 07/01/2010 07:08:53 PM
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