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This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM
Ishamael is the ultimate villain and minion for the Dark One. He believes in pure evil, knows what it means to break the Wheel, and still supports it. This makes him unique among the Forsaken - the rest still think that they'll rule in hell.

In part, I therefore disagree with Shannow. I think Ishamael, like every great philosopher in our history, is a step higher in mental functioning. He is more intelligent than the other Forsaken, and probably every character we know. The fact that he chose the wrong side is curious, except for the fact that he thinks it is the right side. That's possibly why his peers think he's mad.


Ishamael has many similarities to the fallen angel Lucifer. In this case how absolute knowledge brings Pride and a Nihilistic PoV to life. As the Bible puts it: "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee", and later, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." This tells of how he had ultimate wisdom and through his great reasoning fell.
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Ishamael's nature Sidious - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 1910 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature Watcher - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 925 Views
Sisyphus *NM* damookster - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 328 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... Shannow - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 953 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees. Cannoli - 01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM 1025 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... Shishka - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 765 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 803 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? Shannow - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 694 Views
Maybe Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 770 Views
Crap File Leader - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 736 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are... Shannow - 02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM 719 Views
I think the averages are averages. Kieran - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 669 Views
Re: Crap RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 659 Views
Re: Crap mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 642 Views
I love IQ tests. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 614 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Shishka - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 740 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM 728 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 657 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 806 Views
I doubt that. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 635 Views
Re: I doubt that. car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 614 Views
Yep, I agree. Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 718 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 715 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... BlackAdder - 02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM 686 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 743 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 712 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 662 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing car'a'aman - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 650 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and newyorkersedai - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 612 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 1169 Views
Nice Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 680 Views
Impressive newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 675 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 671 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 626 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 681 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. car'a'aman - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 680 Views
Because there is a Creator. Fanatic-Templar - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 606 Views
faulty assumptions car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 615 Views
Impossible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 621 Views
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 1026 Views
But therein lies the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 590 Views
your own argument is self defeating car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 632 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned. Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM 644 Views
*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM 283 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 597 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 284 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 271 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 699 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... Napoleon62 - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 833 Views
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