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This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM
Ishamael is the ultimate villain and minion for the Dark One. He believes in pure evil, knows what it means to break the Wheel, and still supports it. This makes him unique among the Forsaken - the rest still think that they'll rule in hell.

In part, I therefore disagree with Shannow. I think Ishamael, like every great philosopher in our history, is a step higher in mental functioning. He is more intelligent than the other Forsaken, and probably every character we know. The fact that he chose the wrong side is curious, except for the fact that he thinks it is the right side. That's possibly why his peers think he's mad.


Ishamael has many similarities to the fallen angel Lucifer. In this case how absolute knowledge brings Pride and a Nihilistic PoV to life. As the Bible puts it: "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee", and later, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." This tells of how he had ultimate wisdom and through his great reasoning fell.
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Ishamael's nature Sidious - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 1798 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature Watcher - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 821 Views
Sisyphus *NM* damookster - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 281 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... Shannow - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 839 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees. Cannoli - 01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM 908 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... Shishka - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 665 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 693 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? Shannow - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 590 Views
Maybe Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 656 Views
Crap File Leader - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 644 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are... Shannow - 02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM 601 Views
I think the averages are averages. Kieran - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 570 Views
Re: Crap RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 544 Views
Re: Crap mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 514 Views
I love IQ tests. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 510 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Shishka - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 610 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM 611 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 551 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 704 Views
I doubt that. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 526 Views
Re: I doubt that. car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 513 Views
Yep, I agree. Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 611 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 594 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... BlackAdder - 02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM 571 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 643 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 588 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 566 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing car'a'aman - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 533 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and newyorkersedai - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 511 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 984 Views
Nice Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 579 Views
Impressive newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 574 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 572 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 520 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 554 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. car'a'aman - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 545 Views
Because there is a Creator. Fanatic-Templar - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 499 Views
faulty assumptions car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 500 Views
Impossible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 499 Views
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 914 Views
But therein lies the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 493 Views
your own argument is self defeating car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 523 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned. Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM 529 Views
*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM 235 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 499 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 231 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 221 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 582 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... Napoleon62 - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 662 Views
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