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This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM
Ishamael is the ultimate villain and minion for the Dark One. He believes in pure evil, knows what it means to break the Wheel, and still supports it. This makes him unique among the Forsaken - the rest still think that they'll rule in hell.

In part, I therefore disagree with Shannow. I think Ishamael, like every great philosopher in our history, is a step higher in mental functioning. He is more intelligent than the other Forsaken, and probably every character we know. The fact that he chose the wrong side is curious, except for the fact that he thinks it is the right side. That's possibly why his peers think he's mad.


Ishamael has many similarities to the fallen angel Lucifer. In this case how absolute knowledge brings Pride and a Nihilistic PoV to life. As the Bible puts it: "Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee", and later, "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." This tells of how he had ultimate wisdom and through his great reasoning fell.
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Ishamael's nature Sidious - 01/03/2010 05:27:48 PM 2033 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature Watcher - 01/03/2010 07:15:54 PM 1073 Views
Sisyphus *NM* damookster - 02/03/2010 02:27:06 AM 403 Views
Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... Shannow - 01/03/2010 07:23:37 PM 1065 Views
I'd go with this - he lost sight of the forest for enumerating the trees. Cannoli - 01/03/2010 08:21:39 PM 1132 Views
I agree, except with your statement on what Ishamael's area of expertise is ... Shishka - 02/03/2010 03:17:13 PM 876 Views
Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:38:06 PM 915 Views
Are you saying that philosophers are inherently more intelligent than other academics? Shannow - 02/03/2010 04:53:13 PM 790 Views
Maybe Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:00:20 PM 891 Views
Crap File Leader - 02/03/2010 08:58:12 PM 839 Views
That high IQ should make you realise that I am making the same point you are... Shannow - 02/03/2010 09:53:59 PM 820 Views
I think the averages are averages. Kieran - 03/03/2010 01:14:41 AM 790 Views
Re: Crap RugbyPlayingAshaman - 05/03/2010 08:46:56 PM 777 Views
Re: Crap mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:36:16 PM 738 Views
I love IQ tests. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:18:10 AM 708 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Shishka - 02/03/2010 05:30:43 PM 847 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil Sidious - 02/03/2010 06:01:41 PM 855 Views
Re: Which makes him the most evil of the Forsaken... or the least evil mogi67 - 07/03/2010 11:31:14 PM 788 Views
I'm not an expert on nihilism, but ... Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:22:33 PM 907 Views
I doubt that. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:21:32 AM 735 Views
Re: I doubt that. car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:41:43 PM 721 Views
Yep, I agree. Shishka - 08/03/2010 05:58:03 PM 833 Views
This ties in with his parallel to Lucifer. Kieran - 03/03/2010 12:57:37 AM 847 Views
Re: Not a question of intelligence. Rather, a different way of thinking... BlackAdder - 02/03/2010 07:22:58 PM 792 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 01:49:19 AM 869 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:51:44 PM 815 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:31:32 PM 772 Views
Both of us are saying the same thing car'a'aman - 03/03/2010 01:46:57 PM 764 Views
sorry, took "evil" too literally and newyorkersedai - 03/03/2010 07:02:01 PM 743 Views
Found a great theory about Ishamael and his logic on theoryland car'a'aman - 02/03/2010 02:48:02 PM 1281 Views
Nice Sidious - 02/03/2010 04:41:05 PM 792 Views
Impressive newyorkersedai - 02/03/2010 07:24:09 PM 773 Views
I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 01:47:47 AM 792 Views
Re: I have to disagree on one thing, at the very least... car'a'aman - 08/03/2010 12:37:27 PM 730 Views
Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. Fanatic-Templar - 08/03/2010 06:23:19 PM 814 Views
Re: Yes, but Shai'tan himself is outside the Pattern. car'a'aman - 09/03/2010 01:54:26 PM 776 Views
Because there is a Creator. Fanatic-Templar - 09/03/2010 05:57:16 PM 707 Views
faulty assumptions car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 05:05:23 AM 718 Views
Impossible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 06:22:43 AM 723 Views
maybe an analogy will help car'a'aman - 10/03/2010 12:55:37 PM 1128 Views
But therein lies the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 10/03/2010 04:58:42 PM 693 Views
your own argument is self defeating car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:10:36 AM 745 Views
No, that past was created after he was imprisoned. Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:43:08 PM 765 Views
*sigh* I guess we will just have to agree to disagree then.... I still think your theory is flawed *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:11:10 AM 350 Views
Anyway I just realized this point is irrelevant to the original theory car'a'aman - 11/03/2010 08:14:20 AM 727 Views
Yes, I said that at the very beginning: *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 11/03/2010 05:44:19 PM 337 Views
Your reasons and mine for irrelevancy are different.. *NM* car'a'aman - 12/03/2010 05:12:52 AM 322 Views
Re: Ishamael's nature RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/03/2010 10:43:16 PM 814 Views
I don't know if this has any basis in fact... Napoleon62 - 04/03/2010 02:44:26 AM 941 Views
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