He never gave us a glimpse of these details, and you're right that he kept things vague, but that doesn't change the fact that he did create this system which has a mathematical basis in which all the channelers her created fit. Did he bend it from time to time in the series? Sure. Did he have characters make ignorant or arrogant comments that contradicted the actual rules? Sure. But that doesn't mean he didn't know. Given what DomA said, he seemed to know to a very specific degree how strong a channeler was. And he also knew about their Talents, strengths in particular flows, etc. For Aes Sedai, he knew how long they were Novice and Accepted, how old they were, and other minor details most authors don't bother with.
Now, the discussion on strength is purely academic. But at the heart of it has to be the few specific points about strength that Jordan made outside the books. All characters can lie or be mistaken. But when Jordan says something, especially when its something others in Team Jordan have confirmed, you can't wish it away. That has to be the first principle on which you base your theoretical list. Every other quote is open to interpretation. I guarantee you if you took a quote from the books and RJ's quote on the bell curve and pointed the contradiction to him, he would say the character in question was mistaken, or that you're ignoring the implications of skill or knowledge.
And that's precisely the approach Darius and I take to coming up with a strength list. And that's why we were both right years ago to insist that gateway size can't be used to compare male and female strength (which is what Shannow was doing). We were also right to insist that you do have to consider effective strength, not raw strength. I can also remember Shannow insisting on wotmania that effective strength was irrelevant because RJ pulled that out of his hat. And now see how the later parts of the series have totally held that up?
You can continue insisting RJ was wrong or confused. But you have no evidence ot back it up. Darius and I, however, have a system that takes all the quotes into account AND fits with what RJ said. And that's got to be the way to do it.
Now, the discussion on strength is purely academic. But at the heart of it has to be the few specific points about strength that Jordan made outside the books. All characters can lie or be mistaken. But when Jordan says something, especially when its something others in Team Jordan have confirmed, you can't wish it away. That has to be the first principle on which you base your theoretical list. Every other quote is open to interpretation. I guarantee you if you took a quote from the books and RJ's quote on the bell curve and pointed the contradiction to him, he would say the character in question was mistaken, or that you're ignoring the implications of skill or knowledge.
And that's precisely the approach Darius and I take to coming up with a strength list. And that's why we were both right years ago to insist that gateway size can't be used to compare male and female strength (which is what Shannow was doing). We were also right to insist that you do have to consider effective strength, not raw strength. I can also remember Shannow insisting on wotmania that effective strength was irrelevant because RJ pulled that out of his hat. And now see how the later parts of the series have totally held that up?
You can continue insisting RJ was wrong or confused. But you have no evidence ot back it up. Darius and I, however, have a system that takes all the quotes into account AND fits with what RJ said. And that's got to be the way to do it.
The Bell Curve revisited
- 29/10/2012 09:44:09 AM
1639 Views
Re: The Bell Curve revisited
- 29/10/2012 10:21:27 AM
1013 Views
That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:26:49 AM
1597 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:36:32 AM
979 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:40:27 AM
851 Views
Re: That's incorrect...
- 29/10/2012 10:42:57 AM
833 Views
Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:45:07 AM
937 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:49:49 AM
828 Views
Re: Hehe...There are a few disputing it vocally. Whether they're in their right mind, well...
- 29/10/2012 10:56:37 AM
914 Views
It's only as skewed as it seems when you make the assumption that the Forsaken
- 31/10/2012 04:34:11 AM
1153 Views
RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
- 29/10/2012 02:11:19 PM
928 Views
Re: RJ the physicist didn't know math, so that Shannow could be right...
- 29/10/2012 02:37:33 PM
865 Views
there are dozens of reasons for this
- 29/10/2012 08:18:18 PM
881 Views
Re: there are dozens of reasons for this
- 29/10/2012 09:07:35 PM
835 Views
Again I don't argue that genetics play no role
- 30/10/2012 01:57:24 AM
811 Views
Once again just so,we are clear on my stance with Genetics and Strength
- 30/10/2012 03:27:11 PM
830 Views
That the 1000 Novices aren't a random sample of the population?
- 29/10/2012 08:23:47 PM
771 Views
And why would it be biased towards those with lower strength?
- 29/10/2012 09:11:25 PM
782 Views
Absolutely no reason...
- 30/10/2012 01:35:35 AM
878 Views
Re: Absolutely no reason...
- 30/10/2012 06:43:54 AM
783 Views
Only if it was a random sampling. Which this is not.
- 30/10/2012 01:58:34 PM
874 Views
That's exactly the point. I want you to explain why it wasn't random.
- 30/10/2012 02:14:59 PM
804 Views
It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
- 30/10/2012 02:43:03 PM
803 Views
Re: It wasn't random because it was a self-selected sample!
- 30/10/2012 02:47:30 PM
801 Views
Go read a stats text will you?
- 30/10/2012 02:54:16 PM
792 Views
Done
- 31/10/2012 09:34:11 AM
1565 Views
You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
- 10/11/2012 10:14:19 PM
1077 Views
Re: You seem to have perfected whining to a Talent...
- 11/11/2012 11:37:16 AM
903 Views
Seriously? I went and looked at some statistics books, and you won't even reply?
- 01/11/2012 12:13:49 PM
904 Views
Yes that totally makes sense
- 30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
919 Views
- 30/10/2012 08:07:16 AM
919 Views
That's not what happened...
- 30/10/2012 02:01:52 PM
862 Views
Doesn't mean RJ applied it to his series
- 30/10/2012 08:23:29 AM
887 Views
But of course he did..
- 30/10/2012 02:13:07 PM
923 Views
I hate to get into these things
- 29/10/2012 05:45:50 PM
955 Views
I would love for you to be right, because it would solve all our problems, but 0 is the challenge...
- 29/10/2012 07:56:34 PM
939 Views
In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
- 29/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
943 Views
Overwhelm Lanfear, not match her. *NM*
- 29/10/2012 08:26:09 PM
492 Views
Truth is, Moiraine was being overly optimistic...
- 29/10/2012 08:39:17 PM
854 Views
You're pathetic...
- 30/10/2012 01:20:01 AM
782 Views
The quote isn't specific
- 30/10/2012 08:32:36 AM
899 Views
Yet neither of them are at full potential and at least equal a Forsaken
- 30/10/2012 03:45:24 PM
1405 Views
Re: In the truest sense, you are probably right that it is skewed
- 29/10/2012 09:10:27 PM
854 Views
Lots of people mean perfectly normal distribution when they say it
- 30/10/2012 05:25:35 PM
802 Views
Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
- 30/10/2012 12:04:01 AM
981 Views
Re: Couldn't the Towers method of obtaining Aes Sedai be to blame?
- 30/10/2012 09:33:44 AM
915 Views
Are you sure about that?
- 30/10/2012 12:03:43 PM
909 Views
Re: Are you sure about that?
- 30/10/2012 12:19:34 PM
819 Views
That doesn't seem a coherent narrative to me
- 30/10/2012 04:26:25 PM
1150 Views
Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
- 30/10/2012 05:16:40 PM
926 Views
Re: Sharina did not have the Spark, nor did Nicola
- 30/10/2012 05:54:41 PM
796 Views
We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
- 30/10/2012 10:33:55 PM
937 Views
Re: We do not know if Cadsuane or any of the Forsaken are Sparkers
- 31/10/2012 12:30:52 AM
893 Views
A handful of examples are all we have and we have proof that an extremely strong Channeler
- 31/10/2012 02:58:57 AM
781 Views
you're confusing 2 things
- 30/10/2012 04:27:32 AM
1071 Views
One thing
- 30/10/2012 05:23:17 PM
889 Views
That's the problem. The BC RJ has "built" has a minimum and a maximum value
- 30/10/2012 05:48:55 PM
902 Views
