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She did Heal him Sidious Send a noteboard - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
Siuan states that despite being less than half her original strength her healing ability had not changed at all.

So from poor healer to poor healer? Groundbreaking...

Aviendha and Flinn both struggle with Traveling.

That isn't inability. Flinn can actually make gateways that can pass a cart. That is on par with Androl.

Nynaeve cannot make a Ter'angreal.

That's because its an abstract Talent like Dreaming or Listening to the Wind. You either have it or you don't. You can't just pick up a sa'angreal and suddenly identify ter'angreal like Aviendha does.

Rand has almost no healing ability.

Thats not inability, once again. I promise you that if he needs to Heal someone in the LB we will see it.

Conversely, Ishamael is stunned by the WF's ability with weather ... Unless you think he's only talking about Talaan this is an example where clearly weaker Channelers have created OP effects far greater than expected. They only needed to link in order to use the BotW and what they did with that was also clearly well beyond what the FS thought should be possible. This speaks to both exceptional Talent and exceptional skill.

They do not have a Talent with the weather. They are well practiced in flows of Air. Elayne's ability with Air was greatly improved after a few lessons. That isn't Talent. That's practice and technique.

Go ahead and say it was strength that made the difference there, I'm sure Rand will rush out, grab a couple of weak angreal and form a quick circle and beat the DO :P

And strangely enough they demanded the strongest women possible for the BoW ;) No that was skill. The WF are very skilled with Air and probably Water too. It comes from generations of practice.
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3105 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 762 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1301 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1660 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1327 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1447 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1432 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1327 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1690 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1421 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1327 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1362 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1349 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1489 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1148 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1348 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1388 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1462 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1551 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1375 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 685 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1592 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1364 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1528 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1251 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1343 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1399 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1512 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1373 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1368 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1384 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1328 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1431 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1298 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1318 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1394 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1255 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1359 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1579 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1289 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1356 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1268 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1294 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1256 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1387 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1210 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1429 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1355 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1346 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1252 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1275 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1240 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1264 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1247 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1265 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 1190 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1157 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1190 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1285 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1152 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1337 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1132 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1256 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1311 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1249 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1339 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1345 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1497 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1283 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1210 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 1083 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1310 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1250 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1290 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1313 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1267 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1263 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1210 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1247 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1116 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1310 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1211 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1246 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1218 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1263 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1229 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1276 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1288 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1728 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1378 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1277 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1271 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1310 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 1154 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 1133 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1231 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1231 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1263 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 559 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1198 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1280 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1345 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1368 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1208 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 868 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1384 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1248 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1234 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1379 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1273 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1294 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1263 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1301 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1326 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1142 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1102 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1297 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1249 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1442 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1213 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1268 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1257 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 792 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1231 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1413 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1226 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1334 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1233 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1241 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 1205 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1422 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1163 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1712 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1244 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1193 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1365 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1288 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1358 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1216 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1500 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1264 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1417 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1288 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1165 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1326 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1369 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1293 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1421 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1314 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1368 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 668 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1420 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1331 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1349 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1307 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1293 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1319 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1399 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1340 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1368 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1524 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1266 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1148 Views
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