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Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA Send a noteboard - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
But we don't know if the seemingly "normal" birth of Trollocs has something to do with the True Power. What if its the TP in them that allows fetal Trollocs to snag a soul (or whenever a soul is fitted to a body). Just because they seem normal in their breeding doesn't mean they're breeding naturally. After all, the idea of a soul being "attracted" to a TP tainted body seems not very possible to me. The DO also seems to have a "soul pool" of his own. He may well be powering Trolloc births through that.


It's Jordan who said they got their souls from the soul pool, and that unlike the souls used for Nyms (that can later be reborn as humans), those that got a life as Shadowspawn are so tainted they can only be reborn as Shadowspawn (which unless Moridin one days manages to win for the DO and bring the end of Creation means Aginor holds the palm for committing the largest atrocity of all, condemning billions of souls to lives as Shadowspawn and eventually not to be reborn ever again when the Shadowspawn become extinct. As we don't know if new souls are ever "born" or if the number of souls is finite, it could also mean what Aginor has done with the Trollocs could have meant in the long run the extinction of all life but Shadowspawn...)

My guess where the OP or TP came into play for Constructs is that it's used to splice and reorganize their genes and bind their DNA. It may not be possible to make a transmissible genetic "binding" with the One Power (which could happen I guess, some incompatibility between the "binding" and natural life transmission, whereas the TP, not "natural" to life in the Pattern in the first place does a different binding that can be transmitted) , as based on the limited evidence we have, no Construct made by Aes Sedai can reproduce (but however they seem not to have programmed cell degeneration either... Someshta remained alive for +3000 years... so did the Chora trees of the Aiel). It may well be the same for many species of Shadowspawn, i.e. that some specimens that can't reproduce have been around since the War of Shadow. Aginor seems to have found a way, perhaps this could only be done with the TP, to allow Constructs to breed (though not necessarily... it could have been an ethical choice of the Aes Sedai not to introduce new species in the Pattern, to rather make sterile Constructs only, their numbers limited to need and thus kept under control) . I'm guessing Trollocs don't have an extended lifespan either, but it's just a guess.

As for souls, my guess is that it's something I'd call the "spark of life" for lack of something more precise, that calls automatically a suitable soul to the new being. For normal beings, a soul joins at the moment of conception. I guess for constructs it's the equivalent of that "moment of conception" the geneticians reproduced in their laboratories.
This message last edited by DomA on 06/10/2012 at 02:09:56 PM
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3156 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1701 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1408 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1501 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1743 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1467 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1374 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1410 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1395 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1556 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1203 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1429 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1434 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1515 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1610 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1439 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 737 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1650 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1420 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1588 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1302 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1400 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1464 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1559 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1473 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1429 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1434 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1404 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1511 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1352 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1370 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1438 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1308 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1426 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1630 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1345 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1409 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1354 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1344 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1305 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1443 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1263 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1525 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1426 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1399 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1300 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1342 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1304 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1317 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1203 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1256 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1338 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1204 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1401 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1186 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1308 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1355 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1429 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1436 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1547 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1332 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1268 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 1141 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1383 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1296 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1344 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1379 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1321 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1334 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1265 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1305 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1164 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1360 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1270 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1294 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1269 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1313 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1275 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1324 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1329 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1787 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1327 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1331 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1305 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1322 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 587 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1246 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1332 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1394 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1425 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1257 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 896 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1435 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1315 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1309 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1442 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1339 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1344 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1316 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1364 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1387 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1184 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1154 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1260 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1365 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1302 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 829 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1301 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1474 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1292 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1409 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1282 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1289 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1471 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1233 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1767 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1263 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1422 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1404 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1263 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1557 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1313 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1469 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1347 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1213 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1381 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1418 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1343 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1476 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1373 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1439 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 697 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1465 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1379 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1423 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1383 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1382 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1465 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1390 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1334 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1196 Views

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