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Re: AND... Sidious Send a noteboard - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
Sheriam is one of the very strongest AS in the Tower. In fact there are only maybe a dozen women (aside from the Forsaken) that are stronger than she is!

Alanna and Verin are barely slightly average strength as we saw from Merana. At best they are the bottom of the strongest 1/3 of AS (meaning there are close to 250 women stronger than them ... not a handful.

Of course the Kin are weaker. Think of why most of them ARE IN THE KIN and not AS ... lack of strength! As Alise says on any number of occasions, "I am to WEAK to be AS". In fact after the first flurry of very strong Kin the vast majority are very weak. Do some math here to figure out how strong Verin and Alanna are ... generally speaking they are the weakest women who can make a useable gateway on their own. Add together 3 or 4 Kin who are not strong enough to be AS who can match what Verin and Alanna can do (with the linking precision bonus) and that means Verin is roughly 2x the strength of the weakest AS. Couple that with the fact that Siuan was once more than 3x the weakest AS and you can see that Verin and Alanna are between the half way and 2/3 point of current AS Strength (Lelaine/Romanda down to Daigian).

I am not saying Egwene didn't say it, I'm saying she said it before there was real information on how Traveling worked. Her claim that "only a handful of them are strong enough" is proven wrong over and over ... we've seen dozens of AS with the strength to Travel ... it's not much different than Moiraine's early assertions in the series ... how many of those turned out to be incorrect on her part? Again, just because a character makes an observation doesn't mean that it's correct. There are hundreds of cases in the text where characters are 100% wrong in their observations.


But you think characters are wrong whenever their statements don't fit in with you theories. It makes it difficult to argue any topic using evidence if you're just going to toss it out.

Egwene is including all the women she picked up upon the way. Most would never wear the shawl. If 250 Aes Sedai can Travel and you add a thousand new novices, then 12% of her sample can Travel, and that's pretty much a handful.

We know that these women are extremely weak in saidar, with most not strong enough to gain the shawl, and some requiring several friends to make a simple gateway. I agree with you that about a quarter of AS can Travel, but add this to all the new women and this halves again.
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3078 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1643 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1300 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1424 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1659 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1406 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1301 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1331 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1332 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1469 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1127 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1325 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1366 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1440 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1531 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1353 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 671 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1572 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1339 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1503 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1232 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1331 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1375 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1478 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1354 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1342 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1366 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1307 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1406 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1276 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1298 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1366 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1235 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1333 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1562 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1266 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1342 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1243 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1273 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1238 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1363 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1191 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1405 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1340 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1332 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1233 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1257 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1219 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1244 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1137 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1161 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1267 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1135 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1312 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1108 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1241 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1291 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1320 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1328 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1476 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1267 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1186 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 1062 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1293 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1225 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1272 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1293 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1243 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1243 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1189 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1231 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1097 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1285 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1194 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1225 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1195 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1244 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1206 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1249 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1267 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1713 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1257 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1254 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1207 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1244 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 548 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1171 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1255 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1325 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1346 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1185 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 856 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1370 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1226 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1219 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1354 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1256 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1276 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1247 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1277 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1311 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1125 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1084 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1187 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1254 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1238 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 781 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1215 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1399 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1210 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1321 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1212 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1220 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1397 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1143 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1683 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1175 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1340 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1331 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1194 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1472 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1242 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1401 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1265 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1145 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1303 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1348 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1276 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1398 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1296 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1345 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 656 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1399 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1311 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1335 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1287 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1301 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1367 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1238 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1122 Views

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