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I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM
What I'm getting at is that modern AS haven't really trained well and therefore tend to approach fights as matters of strength. Certainly an air bridge or a fireball or some actual "effect" won't be affected by this. But in battle we've seen time and again that AS don't really know how to use their own strength very well. Even ignoring that men and saidin seems to be more suited to this in the first place, AS skills are underdeveloped in facing other Channelers, most likely they've not been involved in this type of thing in 2000 years or so. So we see a series of bad choices being made almost every time we've seen AS fight.

Look at the examples we do have of them fighting (even non-channelers)

Dumai's Wells ... Kiruna and company march in there and start hurling fireballs around. We know that most AS do not have particular strength in Fire ... so why haven't they investigated more effective (for Female strengths Air and Water) weaves? Right there they gave up any advantage they may have had to a male channeler. While they are wasting strength and fighting to control less natural weaves, the men are doing the same with far less effort because they have more affinity to Fire.

On the more positive side, Galina and her group seemed to be doing quite well against an overwhelming numbers deficit to the WO by playing a defensive game. Makes me think they stuck with using Spirit to slice weaves and Air to create barriers.

Two Rivers

Alanna and Verin don't do much, but what they do accomplish is much the same as what Kiruna and her group did ... used Earth and Fire, exhausting themselves in the effort to create some catapult BS. Again, not much foresight into using their own strengths ... in there had been males fighting them they would have been crushed.

Winter's night and Moiraine are another example ... she started flinging fireballs around ... why not use weaves of Air to create razor sharp objects to slice off heads or Water to potentially drown them, or like Chesmal figured out using healing to kill ... any number of ways to adapt female strengths to be more effective here.

Battle for the Tower

All you have to do is read the Adelorna POV to know what was wrong there ... how long did it take them to figure out that Linking would be better than fighting little side battles against highly trained battle damane? Imagine how much worse it would have been for them if Taim and the Asha'man had decided to invade?

Cleansing

This was probably the closest thing we've seen to a successful fight for the AS and in the end the only Circles that experienced losses were the ones being led by an AS. Daigian lost Eben largely because she wasn't actively channeling when she came across Aran'gar. Verin tried a somewhat idiotic ploy by trying to Shield Graendal (her being BA makes that choice more clear too), why on earth would you attempt to take one of the FS prisoner in the middle of a battle when you have no idea how strong she might be, if she had somehow managed to grab an angreal or what skills she may possess. Verin could have killed Graendal in any number of ways before Graendal even knew what happened ... she didn't notice the Shield coming at her, that could as easily have been a fireball or a lightning strike or something else 100% fatal.

Meantime Damer fights off Demandred and Alivia manages to keep Cyndane at bay ... certainly not with ease, but no one died.

So basically I'm saying that the men (and some of the non-AS women) are already playing to their own strengths, and the AS are actively playing against their strengths, thus taking away at least part of the Dexterity bonus they receive on their Strength ... hope that is more clear than before.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3077 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1639 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1299 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1423 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1657 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1406 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1297 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1330 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1328 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1465 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1125 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1324 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1362 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1439 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1531 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1352 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 670 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1570 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1338 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1502 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1229 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1326 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1374 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1476 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1350 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1338 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1363 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1306 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1401 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1274 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1295 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1365 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1233 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1329 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1557 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1261 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1338 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1237 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1271 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1236 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1361 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1189 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1402 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1337 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1328 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1228 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1256 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1215 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1243 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1134 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1158 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1264 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1134 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1308 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1105 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1239 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1289 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1319 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1325 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1476 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1263 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1185 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 1059 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1288 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1222 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1269 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1290 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1241 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1241 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1187 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1227 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1092 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1281 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1191 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1221 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1192 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1241 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1205 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1245 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1264 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1712 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1256 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1251 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1203 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1240 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 547 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1170 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1254 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1322 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1344 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1183 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 855 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1366 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1224 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1216 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1353 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1251 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1273 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1243 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1276 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1308 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1120 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1082 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1185 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1252 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1236 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 781 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1212 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1396 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1208 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1316 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1211 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1219 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1391 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1142 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1681 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1171 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1336 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1330 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1191 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1472 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1239 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1400 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1259 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1143 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1302 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1346 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1273 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1397 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1292 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1342 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 656 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1395 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1306 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1334 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1286 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1297 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1364 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1234 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1118 Views

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