An average Asha'man will have a lot more raw strength than an average AS, but because they are not particularly well trained I don't think the effectiveness bonus a woman has is as prominent as it is with the AoL Channelers.
That shouldn't really apply.
RJ said women were using less saidar for the same tasks than men use saidin, as their weaves are more efficient. That probably originates in a large part from the very nature of saidar vs. the nature of saidin. Women need to yield in order to control saidar, for men it's always a struggle to control saidin.
It's also more complex than this, as we know saidin is better suited to some tasks, and saidar to others. So, "women's weaves are more efficient and therefore require less raw power" is more the general rule, discounting the exceptions when finesse or raw strength gives a distinct advantage to one sex over the other (which must be frequent, as women are better at handling Air and Water and the men at Fire and Earth).
In other words,the difference should apply just as much if not more to this Age's channellers. You call the Aes Sedai untrained, but they are in fact extremely well-trained at the weaves the WT knows compared to the Asha'man whose training is rushed, and far less diversified than that of Aes Sedai. The gap in experience and knowledge between AS and Asha'man is probably much greater than it stood between male and female channelers of the AOL.
About Gateway size, it's clear there are other factors that may come into play (one of them might have to do with affinity or skills with the Pattern... which in turn seems to be related to affinity for Spirit in channellers, but a similar affinity can be found in non-channellers too (eg: Perrin, Bair, possibly Min) so it's quite possible that same unknown factor X found in channellers and non-channelers and related to the soul has an incidence, manifests itself as a strength or affinity for Spirit too when the person is a channeller) and it's not a very reliable way to judge strength, but strength is a major factor, perhaps simply because a lack of special ability can be compensated by using a great deal more OP to make the gateway. As the special ability with Spirit seems rare (and for now there's no absolte evidence ability with the flow equals automatically better Gateways, better ability with shields and natural ability with dreamwalking... though Egwene was sharp about puzzling out travelling on her own), it would mean for the average channeler strength is a big factor in their maximum gateway size, and mind you, with Callandor perhaps Androl would win the contest. We've seen women use angreal to create larger gateways, we've seen a full circle of thirteen making a large gateway, and we've seen Neald make a larger gateway than he ever could unaided after when he linked with women.
If the general rule applies, and it probably does, it means a large gateway, special skills like Androl's excluded, requires considerably more strength to make for a man than it does for a woman.
This message last edited by DomA on 07/10/2012 at 07:36:49 PM
Problems with gateways
28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
- 2743 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
- 587 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
- 956 Views
It's been discussed before...
28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
- 1279 Views
I would agree with this
28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
- 957 Views
Re: I would agree with this
28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
- 1102 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
- 1062 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
- 975 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
- 1170 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
- 764 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
- 994 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
- 1181 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
- 1177 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
- 976 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
- 1153 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
- 880 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
- 982 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
- 1011 Views
No I think they're more about strength
02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
- 1156 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
- 971 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
- 982 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
- 1018 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
- 990 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
- 1055 Views
She did Heal him
04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
- 955 Views
Re-read some stuff
04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
- 1007 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
- 1198 Views
But his thought processes are sound
04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
- 894 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
- 998 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
- 912 Views
Ummm...
05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
- 912 Views
Re: Ummm...
06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
- 1027 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
- 860 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind
07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM
- 1069 Views
I think he did
08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
- 995 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
- 893 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
- 899 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
- 915 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
- 869 Views
Exactly...
10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
- 770 Views
Re: Exactly...
10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
- 835 Views
Re: Exactly...
10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
- 933 Views
AND...
10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
- 815 Views
Re: AND...
11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
- 953 Views
Re: AND...
12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
- 902 Views
Re: AND...
12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
- 931 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
- 874 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
- 952 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
- 1128 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
- 923 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
- 707 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
- 964 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
- 902 Views
to the point on the Circle
06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
- 952 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
- 888 Views
I've been thinking about this
07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
- 862 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
- 903 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
- 786 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
- 956 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
- 855 Views
Highly doubtful...
08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
- 888 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
- 849 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
- 871 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
- 864 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
- 907 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
- 896 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
- 1357 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
- 994 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
- 895 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
- 953 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
- 792 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
- 896 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle
07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
- 879 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
- 907 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
- 414 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
- 901 Views
There is so much evidence against this
04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
- 978 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
- 982 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
- 862 Views
He's referring to skimming
06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
- 1037 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
- 878 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
- 916 Views
Please explain Androl then
07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
- 950 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
- 896 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
- 897 Views
07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
- 767 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
- 902 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
- 905 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
- 1070 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
- 867 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
- 621 Views
I agree with this PoV
06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
- 1010 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
- 854 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
- 980 Views
I disagree
08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
- 911 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
- 888 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
- 852 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
- 1027 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
- 1281 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
- 892 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
- 844 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
- 1003 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
- 916 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
- 859 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
- 1078 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
- 796 Views
Or the reverse could be true
02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
- 911 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
- 1030 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
- 947 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
- 999 Views
The point is the same regardless
03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
- 929 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
- 1042 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
- 985 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
- 936 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
- 904 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
- 945 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
- 958 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
- 1126 Views