His ability with Traveling makes the strength correlation a joke. Clearly there is a Talent involved with this skill that isn't tied directly to Spirit or any other "strength" measure ... We have plenty of evidence that Androl is weak across the boards. He says so himself.
But it does make me wonder if Androl can go to TAR in the flesh and if he would show Talent there... But I digress ... Nothing to say his ability gives any insight into why shadowspawn can't pass through a Gateway
But it does make me wonder if Androl can go to TAR in the flesh and if he would show Talent there... But I digress ... Nothing to say his ability gives any insight into why shadowspawn can't pass through a Gateway

We've learned Androl has a "Talent" for Gateways, not that his Gateways are incredibly large. The only one we've seen him make was incredibly small - he made it to use it as a cutting tool. As far as we can tell, they are rather very precise, eg: he controls their size and very exact location far more precisely than others. He may also be adept at reaching very precise locations. He seems adept at weaving small flows with great precision.
It's debatable whether this qualifies as "a Talent". I think many have overlooked all the background information we were given about the guy. First, he's one of the best travelled character we ever heard of. His POVs are full of hints that the guy has lived all over the place over his life, even visited odd places like a small island the SF themselves don't go often to. There's been hints he's lived in Cairhien, Tear, Illian, Tarabon, Murandy, Retash... The second element we've heard is that this guy has been apprentice to dozens or more craftsmen over the years. He can work leather finely and for high precision operations - very minutious tasks - he can give advice about the digging of a canal like an engineer, he has been apprenticed to an architect and thus must have developped very good spatial skills.
If we combine the fact he is very weak and since the beginning of his training he's had to handle very small flows, that he's got skills in dozens of trades including some requiring fine motor skills and finesse, and others in which he developped his spatial coordination and skills, and if we add on top of this that the guy seems to know the Westlands and beyond like few others as he's been everywhere, it's not all that surprising he ends up being extremely good with impressively precise Travelling Gateways, to the point he can use them as a razor sharp cutting tool safely and all.... Perhaps we don't have to look any further to know how Logain learned to open gateways above ground (not to cut the deck of the SF ship - it might be an innovation Androl came up with and showed him (we know Logain was impressed enough with his skills with Gateways he forced Taim to make Androl a Dedicated over this).
If you ask me, more than anything the guy's evidence of how much your experiences and skills outside channelling can influence your aptitudes and affinities with the OP. Androl is also an exemple of when an apparent weakness - his lack of raw strength - can be turned into an asset: because small flows is all he ever can manage and thus uses all the time, he's developped impressive skills with precise weaves using very thin flows... It's not suprising this aptitude has shown for Gateways; Taim focusses training mostly on wild destruction and tasks using large amounts of OP to force the men faster, but Travelling is one of the non destructive weace all the Asha'man learn, and it's probably just one of many "fancier" weaves Androl would be able to handle with great precision, for now the limited focus of the BT has just made it go under the radar. With his background and type of mind, I wouldn't be surprised given an angreal to boost his strength Androl may also be great at minutious tasks such as ter'angreal making etc. It's probably also a very good clue that by shunning too much practical knowledge the Aes Sedai have really undermined their channelling potential - most of them shun using the OP for mundane tasks, it's no wonder their minds are pretty dry when it comes to think of new practical ways to use the OP. Alvarin is a White and thus more extreme than the average sister, but remember how amazed she was of a description of an elevator... A sister could no doubt think of a way to power one with the OP... but they all seem to have zero background knowledge in mechanics and engineering....
By all evidence, raw strength is a big factor in the maximum size of gateway, though the weave itself seems to be another (some women much weaker than Rand can outdo him on this). That's also why Sisters have already taken the habit of linking to open larger gateways, and why others like many Kinswomen need to link to make open a gateway large enough to use.
Problems with gateways
- 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
3049 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
- 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
735 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
- 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
1253 Views
It's been discussed before...
- 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
1610 Views
I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
1267 Views
Re: I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
1391 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
- 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
1380 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
- 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
1278 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
- 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
1623 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
- 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
1097 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
- 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
1293 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
1496 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
1532 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
1301 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
1469 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
- 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
1194 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
- 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
1300 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
- 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
1336 Views
No I think they're more about strength
- 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
1447 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
1318 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
1304 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
1330 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
1277 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
- 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
1371 Views
She did Heal him
- 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
1246 Views
Re-read some stuff
- 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
1331 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
1525 Views
But his thought processes are sound
- 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
1231 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
1297 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
1217 Views
Ummm...
- 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
1203 Views
Re: Ummm...
- 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
1334 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
1164 Views
I think he did
- 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
1301 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
- 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
1205 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
- 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
1191 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
- 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
1208 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
- 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
1139 Views
Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
1103 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
1127 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
1237 Views
AND...
- 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
1100 Views
Re: AND...
- 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
1277 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
1215 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
1262 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
- 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
1194 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
- 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
1284 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
1447 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
1226 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
- 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
1028 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
- 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
1262 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
1235 Views
to the point on the Circle
- 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
1267 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
- 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
1216 Views
I've been thinking about this
- 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
1152 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
- 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
1196 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
- 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
1066 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
- 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
1248 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
- 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
1157 Views
Highly doubtful...
- 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
1197 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
1164 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1208 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
- 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
1168 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
- 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
1221 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
- 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
1229 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
- 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1674 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
- 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
1310 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
- 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
1223 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
- 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
1251 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
- 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
1076 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
- 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
1174 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle
- 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
1174 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
- 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
1213 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
- 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
528 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
- 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
1218 Views
There is so much evidence against this
- 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
1293 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
- 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
1314 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
1150 Views
He's referring to skimming
- 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
1334 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
- 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
1197 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
1225 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1051 Views
Please explain Androl then
- 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
1244 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
- 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
1215 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1244 Views
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1244 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1051 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
- 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
1237 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
- 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
1199 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
- 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
1390 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
- 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
1154 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
- 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
755 Views
I agree with this PoV
- 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
1356 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
1173 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
- 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
1283 Views
I disagree
- 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
1186 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
- 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
1184 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
- 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
1146 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
1365 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1648 Views
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1648 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
1185 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
1142 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
1307 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
- 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
1231 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
1162 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
1441 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
- 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
1118 Views
Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
1266 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
1314 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
1239 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
1361 Views
The point is the same regardless
- 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
1258 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
1362 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
- 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
1273 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
- 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
1241 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
1267 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
1281 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
1305 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
1463 Views
