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Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA Send a noteboard - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
His ability with Traveling makes the strength correlation a joke. Clearly there is a Talent involved with this skill that isn't tied directly to Spirit or any other "strength" measure ... We have plenty of evidence that Androl is weak across the boards. He says so himself.

But it does make me wonder if Androl can go to TAR in the flesh and if he would show Talent there... But I digress ... Nothing to say his ability gives any insight into why shadowspawn can't pass through a Gateway :P


We've learned Androl has a "Talent" for Gateways, not that his Gateways are incredibly large. The only one we've seen him make was incredibly small - he made it to use it as a cutting tool. As far as we can tell, they are rather very precise, eg: he controls their size and very exact location far more precisely than others. He may also be adept at reaching very precise locations. He seems adept at weaving small flows with great precision.

It's debatable whether this qualifies as "a Talent". I think many have overlooked all the background information we were given about the guy. First, he's one of the best travelled character we ever heard of. His POVs are full of hints that the guy has lived all over the place over his life, even visited odd places like a small island the SF themselves don't go often to. There's been hints he's lived in Cairhien, Tear, Illian, Tarabon, Murandy, Retash... The second element we've heard is that this guy has been apprentice to dozens or more craftsmen over the years. He can work leather finely and for high precision operations - very minutious tasks - he can give advice about the digging of a canal like an engineer, he has been apprenticed to an architect and thus must have developped very good spatial skills.

If we combine the fact he is very weak and since the beginning of his training he's had to handle very small flows, that he's got skills in dozens of trades including some requiring fine motor skills and finesse, and others in which he developped his spatial coordination and skills, and if we add on top of this that the guy seems to know the Westlands and beyond like few others as he's been everywhere, it's not all that surprising he ends up being extremely good with impressively precise Travelling Gateways, to the point he can use them as a razor sharp cutting tool safely and all.... Perhaps we don't have to look any further to know how Logain learned to open gateways above ground (not to cut the deck of the SF ship - it might be an innovation Androl came up with and showed him (we know Logain was impressed enough with his skills with Gateways he forced Taim to make Androl a Dedicated over this).

If you ask me, more than anything the guy's evidence of how much your experiences and skills outside channelling can influence your aptitudes and affinities with the OP. Androl is also an exemple of when an apparent weakness - his lack of raw strength - can be turned into an asset: because small flows is all he ever can manage and thus uses all the time, he's developped impressive skills with precise weaves using very thin flows... It's not suprising this aptitude has shown for Gateways; Taim focusses training mostly on wild destruction and tasks using large amounts of OP to force the men faster, but Travelling is one of the non destructive weace all the Asha'man learn, and it's probably just one of many "fancier" weaves Androl would be able to handle with great precision, for now the limited focus of the BT has just made it go under the radar. With his background and type of mind, I wouldn't be surprised given an angreal to boost his strength Androl may also be great at minutious tasks such as ter'angreal making etc. It's probably also a very good clue that by shunning too much practical knowledge the Aes Sedai have really undermined their channelling potential - most of them shun using the OP for mundane tasks, it's no wonder their minds are pretty dry when it comes to think of new practical ways to use the OP. Alvarin is a White and thus more extreme than the average sister, but remember how amazed she was of a description of an elevator... A sister could no doubt think of a way to power one with the OP... but they all seem to have zero background knowledge in mechanics and engineering....

By all evidence, raw strength is a big factor in the maximum size of gateway, though the weave itself seems to be another (some women much weaker than Rand can outdo him on this). That's also why Sisters have already taken the habit of linking to open larger gateways, and why others like many Kinswomen need to link to make open a gateway large enough to use.
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3003 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1565 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1208 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1350 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1524 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1330 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1222 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1260 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1249 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1371 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1044 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1253 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1276 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1350 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1449 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1273 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 639 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1484 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1237 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1414 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1156 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1261 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1286 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1411 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1284 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1262 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1286 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1230 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1324 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1191 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1197 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1285 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1152 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1258 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1472 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1173 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1254 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1171 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1211 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1154 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1280 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1113 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1336 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1250 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1254 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1162 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1160 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1142 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1162 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1052 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1082 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1194 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1052 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1232 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1022 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1154 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1213 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1241 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1246 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1411 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1182 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1113 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 975 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1219 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1140 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1189 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1214 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1161 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1166 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1110 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1145 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1015 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1198 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1116 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1153 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1111 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1150 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1110 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1169 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1180 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1622 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1165 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1166 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1137 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1170 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 510 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1092 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1183 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1252 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1264 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1102 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 819 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1290 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1146 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1136 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1276 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1181 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1190 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1157 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1194 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1229 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1046 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1002 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1107 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1175 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1154 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 731 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1133 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1310 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1123 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1241 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1144 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1144 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1315 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1064 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1592 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1102 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1257 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1260 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1119 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1385 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1167 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1288 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1175 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1068 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1228 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1262 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1189 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1313 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1208 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1266 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 619 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1316 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1229 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1257 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1214 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1204 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1268 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1154 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1041 Views

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