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The point is the same regardless darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
That is like saying everyone who is tall will play basketball. Point being there is no black and white correlation for these things ... It's a Nature vs. Nurture argument which to me means its a combination of things.

Moiraine has a great Talent for Healing but opted to follow her cause and join the Blue, but she still goes out of her way in many instances to Heal others, on many occasions draining herself when another may have walked away.

Asha'man making weapons who were not Smiths could be as simple as no opportunity for them ... It is a rather specialized skill in WOT so the odds of them all being Smiths are slim.


These are two bad examples, though. Moiraine is good at the "heal all" weave. It doesn't even work on the same principles as real five power healing, which isn't a weave, but using the OP in different ways depending on the ailment. The old style Healing Moiraine's good at has not much at all to do with medicine, unlike what Nynaeve does. She puzzle out the exact problem with delving and intuitively fix it using the five flows in incredibly complex combinations.

As for the Asha'man, they don't "make weapons" per se, they do something to the metal/alliage as a skilled smith is forging it into a weapon.






What Moiraine does still requires the Talent and was meant to address the point on empathy as much as anything else ... The Asha'man example was from Sidious, I was pointing out how slim the chances of so many men having the opportunity to be blacksmiths would be
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 03/10/2012 at 05:17:41 AM
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3003 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 710 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1205 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1565 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1208 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1350 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1340 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1224 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1524 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1330 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1222 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1260 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1249 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1371 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1044 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1253 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1276 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1351 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1449 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1274 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 639 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1485 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1238 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1414 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1157 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1261 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1286 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1411 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1284 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1263 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1286 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1230 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1324 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1191 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1197 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1285 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1153 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1258 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1472 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1174 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1254 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1171 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1211 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1154 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1280 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1113 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1336 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1250 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1254 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1162 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1160 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1142 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1162 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1138 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1169 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 1094 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1052 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1082 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1194 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1052 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1232 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1022 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1155 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1213 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1150 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1241 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1246 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1411 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1182 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1113 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 976 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1219 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1140 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1189 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1215 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1161 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1167 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1110 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1145 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1015 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1199 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1117 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1153 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1111 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1150 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1111 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1169 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1181 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1622 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1264 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1166 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1166 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1204 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 1067 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 1037 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1137 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1137 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1170 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 510 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1093 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1184 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1252 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1265 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1103 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 819 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1291 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1146 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1136 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1276 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1181 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1190 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1157 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1194 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1230 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1046 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1002 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1188 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1159 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1325 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1108 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1175 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1154 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 732 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1133 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1310 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1123 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1242 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1144 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1145 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 1101 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1315 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1064 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1593 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1135 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1103 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1257 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1188 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1260 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1120 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1385 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1167 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1288 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1175 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1069 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1229 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1262 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1189 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1313 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1209 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1267 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 619 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1316 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1229 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1257 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1214 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1198 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1205 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1268 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1236 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1249 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1404 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1154 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1041 Views
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