I agree that it would be a huge misconception, but if I was Logain I would still stick to that logic. If Logain judges Aes Sedai strength on gateways or shielding, he will be right in the vast majority of cases, assuming the woman tells him she is making her largest gateway.

I don't understand why you think that this is a new thing. Lews Therin says that no three women can shield him unless one is Forsaken strength. Conversely you can say that Logain could claim that no woman could hold him unless she has a shielding Talent. But you want to throw everything out of the window because of someone like Berowin.



Firstly, Androl cannot make a gateway that rivals Rand's. He can make a gateway that can pass a cart, and many Asha'man can do that. We saw from as early as ACoS that Rand only took Asha'man who fulfilled this exact criterion for gateway size. Androl is rare because he's probably as strong as Daigain and can make gateways as large as Egwene.

And once again, I think you are incorrect about Logain. Logain knows that a Talent is a rare thing. He therefore links gateway size to strength in the Power. Rand did it long before Logain did. The chance that someone could be like Androl is a small possibility that Logain is happy to discount. I think most people would be. By all accounts Androl and Berowin are unique.



What evidence do you have that it is abundant? Androl is the single example we have of a channeler, male or female, who can definitively weave gateways that greatly exceed his strength. I sincerely hope you don't mean that everyone who can Travel has a travelling Talent, because then everyone who can shield has a shielding Talent. Talent implies that it is wildly out of proportion to your predicted ability.


That is nonsense! Less than a third of Aes Sedai can Travel. It takes three sometimes four Kin to Travel. Considering we're expected to follow the strict bell curve for the sexes, the same can probably be said for men.



Does Flinn actually say that his gateways are smaller than they should be or that he struggles? Because its mostly likely it doesn't come naturally to him but he can still weave proportionately to his strength. Aviendha's gateways are not smaller, they merely require more saidar.


I would guess that someone who has zero ability with Spirit would probably not be able to Travel, though we have never met such a person. Most people struggle with some of the flows but they still get by.


That's like saying that he's not like Graendal with Compulsion. It's obvious. No one is.


I think that its a weave that is directly related to strength in the Power and that your gateway size increases as your strength does. However, and I've said this before, I think that the Talent is hugely powerful if it manifests and makes the person much greater than one would expect. I just don't believe it manifests often.

I think Androl has the Talent, and probably Rand, Demandred and Semirhage.


One could speculate on that I guess.


Yes you can. Logain did, and there is no theme there. It was RJ directly answering a fan question about gateway size vs strength. If Logain was such a fool then Rand would have refuted him.

It probably comes down to your own world philosophies, so it might not help to argue. I personally like generalizations but respect outliers, and then try to make a rule. You probably won't make a rule unless its 100% applicable.

If I see someone pick up a big block of concrete, I'm happy to say that its probably a strong man. If it's a weak man with skill or a woman, I'd probably be shocked - but not embarrassed. I'd be right 99 times out 100.


I don't dispute any of that.


I know that. It is possible, however, that you can bulldoze your way through several feats with the Power using strength. If a weave has components of strength and skill you can probably compensate with one if you lack the other in most cases. Androl has immense skill. Logain has immense strength. They can make big gateways.


This I don't agree with. There is no evidence of flow purity with the Power. It's more likely the flow doesn't obey the channeler and is difficult to weave, and also that the flow is weaker.


Because strength in Earth is the key. Egwene said as much. Its uncommon in women.


How many times do I have to repeat this? I told you that I think that increased Power can increase your ability. Maybe Egwene has 100% ability with cuendillar and Kairen 50%, and Romanda 5%. I'm saying that if Romanda got an angreal she could perhaps push her ability to 10%. You keep on making as if I think Romanda will suddenly be on Egwene's level.

We know that Samitsu can Heal as well as a full circle. Therefore take thirteen women and pile them up and suddenly you can Heal as well as the best Healer in the White Tower. I fully understand that precision and the nature of circles plays a role but also that compounding strength plays a part.

Moiraine may have 20% of Nynaeve's ability with Healing and therefore when she wants to do something grand she uses her angreal. It boosts her to 30% say. That doesn't mean she's Nynaeve as you keep on reinforcing. Verin uses an angreal to amplify her ability with Compulsion. I didn't say she was Graendal.