This is crazy. I can't believe you think RJ inserted Logain's comments to portray some sort of theme of ignorance. People have been saying for many books that gateway size and strength correlate. This merely follows through.
For books and books, we had people tell us men were stronger than women, and women needed circles to match men. Then RJ gave us the real answer and blew that misconception among the channelers into the garbage can. Why wouldn't he do the same thing here?
[quote]I agree that Logain could have been wrong about Rand, but people follow the laws of averages when they talk. Logain knows that Androl is pretty much the only one in the BT that violates this rule. He probably walks around the BT telling Dedicated that they are increasing in strength because their gateways are larger.[/quote]
And that's okay, because Logain doesn't care about exact strength, or strength distribution. But we do. We have to be scientific and accurate, because we're trying to do something Logain has no interest in. Logain cares how effective people are at their tasks, and he had Androl promoted because he can Travel with extraordinary ease. But we're not into promoting Asha'man. We want to know exactly how strong they are, and how to figure out their strength. Comments from Flinn, Rand and Aviendha, as well as the Gateways of Androl and Reanne (Beonin too), prove that Gateway size is not a good indicator of exact strength. RJ even had Pevara make this mistake, in KoD, when she thought that they should bond men who make larger Gateways since they'll be stronger. Then who pops into her house and is likely to be her Warder? Androl.
If Rand is held by a woman, what is more likely? That she is as strong as Lanfear or that its a woman like Berowin? Bearing in mind that Berowin is still the only woman we've seen with such an aptitude.
Lanfear is also the only woman we've seen with that strength, remember? That you'd naturally pick one outlier instead of another shows the lack of scientific rigor in your process, no? The right way is to judge the woman's OP strength AND her Talent at shielding. Not ignore one or the other just because it mostly works.
Problems with gateways
- 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
3025 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
- 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
719 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
- 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
1224 Views
It's been discussed before...
- 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
1588 Views
I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
1234 Views
Re: I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
1367 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
- 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
1356 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
- 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
1246 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
- 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
1566 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
- 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
1069 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
- 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
1269 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
1468 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
1509 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
1282 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
1433 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
- 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
1174 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
- 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
1277 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
- 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
1307 Views
No I think they're more about strength
- 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
1422 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
1298 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
1284 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
1300 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
1251 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
- 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
1345 Views
She did Heal him
- 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
1209 Views
Re-read some stuff
- 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
1301 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
1495 Views
But his thought processes are sound
- 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
1196 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
1270 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
1190 Views
Ummm...
- 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
1177 Views
Re: Ummm...
- 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
1305 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
1135 Views
I think he did
- 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
1276 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
- 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
1179 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
- 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
1160 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
- 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
1187 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
- 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
1111 Views
Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
1069 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
1101 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
1210 Views
AND...
- 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
1079 Views
Re: AND...
- 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
1249 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
1183 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
1234 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
- 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
1171 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
- 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
1259 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
1427 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
1204 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
- 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
997 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
- 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
1234 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
1213 Views
to the point on the Circle
- 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
1238 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
- 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
1187 Views
I've been thinking about this
- 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
1134 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
- 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
1163 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
- 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
1039 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
- 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
1218 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
- 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
1134 Views
Highly doubtful...
- 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
1173 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
1136 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1173 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
- 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
1139 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
- 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
1190 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
- 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
1199 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
- 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1646 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
- 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
1287 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
- 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
1190 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
- 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
1227 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
- 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
1052 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
- 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
1154 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle
- 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
1155 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
- 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
1186 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
- 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
516 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
- 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
1202 Views
There is so much evidence against this
- 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
1270 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
- 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
1287 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
1125 Views
He's referring to skimming
- 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
1310 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
- 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
1168 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
1203 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1021 Views
Please explain Androl then
- 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
1211 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
- 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
1182 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1211 Views
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1211 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1021 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
- 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
1213 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
- 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
1171 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
- 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
1353 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
- 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
1127 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
- 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
742 Views
I agree with this PoV
- 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
1329 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
1142 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
- 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
1261 Views
I disagree
- 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
1158 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
- 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
1161 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
- 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
1121 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
1335 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1615 Views
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1615 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
1157 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
1121 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
1277 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
- 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
1208 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
1141 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
1415 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
- 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
1097 Views
Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
1243 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
1279 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
1208 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
1335 Views
The point is the same regardless
- 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
1233 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
1336 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
- 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
1244 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
- 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
1217 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
1232 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
1264 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
1277 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
1429 Views

