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Ummm... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM

This is crazy. I can't believe you think RJ inserted Logain's comments to portray some sort of theme of ignorance. People have been saying for many books that gateway size and strength correlate. This merely follows through.

For books and books, we had people tell us men were stronger than women, and women needed circles to match men. Then RJ gave us the real answer and blew that misconception among the channelers into the garbage can. Why wouldn't he do the same thing here?

[quote]I agree that Logain could have been wrong about Rand, but people follow the laws of averages when they talk. Logain knows that Androl is pretty much the only one in the BT that violates this rule. He probably walks around the BT telling Dedicated that they are increasing in strength because their gateways are larger.[/quote]
And that's okay, because Logain doesn't care about exact strength, or strength distribution. But we do. We have to be scientific and accurate, because we're trying to do something Logain has no interest in. Logain cares how effective people are at their tasks, and he had Androl promoted because he can Travel with extraordinary ease. But we're not into promoting Asha'man. We want to know exactly how strong they are, and how to figure out their strength. Comments from Flinn, Rand and Aviendha, as well as the Gateways of Androl and Reanne (Beonin too), prove that Gateway size is not a good indicator of exact strength. RJ even had Pevara make this mistake, in KoD, when she thought that they should bond men who make larger Gateways since they'll be stronger. Then who pops into her house and is likely to be her Warder? Androl.
If Rand is held by a woman, what is more likely? That she is as strong as Lanfear or that its a woman like Berowin? Bearing in mind that Berowin is still the only woman we've seen with such an aptitude.

Lanfear is also the only woman we've seen with that strength, remember? That you'd naturally pick one outlier instead of another shows the lack of scientific rigor in your process, no? The right way is to judge the woman's OP strength AND her Talent at shielding. Not ignore one or the other just because it mostly works.
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2924 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1499 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1141 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1282 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1441 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1277 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1161 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1202 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1178 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1303 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 976 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1181 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1207 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1285 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1372 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1185 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 601 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1407 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1163 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1341 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1094 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1190 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1216 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1352 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1198 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1199 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1213 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1178 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1260 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1131 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1140 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1207 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1047 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1182 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1411 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1100 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1176 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1116 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1154 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1100 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1220 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1045 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1251 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1181 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1194 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1096 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1090 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1070 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1100 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 974 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1021 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1134 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 990 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1162 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 966 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1091 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1159 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1143 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1159 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1340 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1119 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1039 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 885 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1150 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1076 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1109 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1125 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1094 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1098 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1046 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1082 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 953 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1126 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1028 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1073 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1061 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1080 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1042 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1109 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1102 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1550 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1078 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1084 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1060 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1110 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 481 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1037 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1090 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1181 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1174 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1039 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 786 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1230 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1076 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1072 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1181 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1111 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1121 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1076 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1115 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1147 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 976 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 943 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1046 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1112 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1094 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 700 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1063 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1208 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1043 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1174 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1097 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1067 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1229 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 995 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1498 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1045 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1188 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1160 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1053 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1313 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1103 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1224 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1110 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 985 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1141 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1207 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1135 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1242 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1161 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1194 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 590 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1249 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1163 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1164 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1128 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1103 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1175 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1086 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 966 Views

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