Active Users:206 Time:20/05/2024 02:12:10 AM
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT Send a noteboard - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
My guess where the OP or TP came into play for Constructs is that it's used to splice and reorganize their genes and bind their DNA. It may not be possible to make a transmissible genetic "binding" with the One Power (which could happen I guess, some incompatibility between the "binding" and natural life transmission, whereas the TP, not "natural" to life in the Pattern in the first place does a different binding that can be transmitted) , as based on the limited evidence we have, no Construct made by Aes Sedai can reproduce (but however they seem not to have programmed cell degeneration either... Someshta remained alive for +3000 years... so did the Chora trees of the Aiel). It may well be the same for many species of Shadowspawn, i.e. that some specimens that can't reproduce have been around since the War of Shadow. Aginor seems to have found a way, perhaps this could only be done with the TP, to allow Constructs to breed (though not necessarily... it could have been an ethical choice of the Aes Sedai not to introduce new species in the Pattern, to rather make sterile Constructs only, their numbers limited to need and thus kept under control) . I'm guessing Trollocs don't have an extended lifespan either, but it's just a guess.


I can't remember, but I thought Avendesora was the only chora to survive and that they gave a cutting to the Cairhienen. I suppose even if this was the case that it wouldn't count as reproduction, just a cloning, but it does suggest one way for some constructs to make copies (or have copies made).

I am also curious about Someshta... He says he remembers Wolfbrothers when he meets Perrin, but this must mean he is even older than the AOL (or at least was already very old by its end) unless I missed something and there were wolfbrothers during the War of Power. He also remarks that it's been TWO thousand years since he's been under Avendesora. Was this a mistake on RJ's part, or did he have something to do with Rhuidean after being set up to guard to the Eye?

Finally, you recently suggested that Nakomi and the Green Man may have been ancient gods predating the Wheel cosmology. Did you mean that the Nym were ancient gods, or that they were created to celebrate that tradition? In the AOL, seed singing was done by men with a Green Man, so this leaves out the female aspect of that older cosmology. What was Nakomi's role? If not growth and rebirth, how was she supposed to work with the Green Man? Was the Serpent more than a symbol for time in this cosmology? Was there any space for the Dark One, or the True Source? I think the Horn of Valere (already an ancient misunderstood object during the AOL) may also have something to do with this older belief system. Some things we are told are very old, maybe older than the AOL: The Way of the Leaf, Dreamers, Wolfbrothers, the Horn of Valere, the Great Serpent, Portal Stones, the Ogier and the Stedding, the Tower of Ghenji... Do you think there are clues here to the outcome of the Last Battle, or are these just elements of world building?

LoialT :]
Reply to message
Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2752 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1288 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 965 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1111 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1183 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1100 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 971 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1015 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 991 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1135 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 775 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1004 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1031 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1088 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1189 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1003 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 523 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1186 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 987 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1159 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 888 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 992 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1018 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1165 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 979 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 990 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1028 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 999 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1064 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 963 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 973 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1015 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 843 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1011 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1207 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 902 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1012 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 921 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 960 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 922 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1037 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 870 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1079 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1011 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1006 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 927 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 880 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 862 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 901 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 779 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 842 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 939 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 821 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 960 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 803 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 910 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 939 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 959 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 991 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1137 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 928 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 864 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 716 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 972 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 904 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 910 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 961 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 898 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 903 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 873 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 912 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 796 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 965 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 862 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 896 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 858 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 879 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 875 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 915 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 902 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1367 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 905 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 909 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 889 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 917 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 416 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 877 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 909 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 986 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 995 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 871 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 714 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1046 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 888 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 897 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1005 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 928 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 961 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 903 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 906 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 955 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 799 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 776 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 878 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 940 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 918 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 623 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 891 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1020 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 863 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 988 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 920 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 899 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1036 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 823 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1289 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 854 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1009 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 950 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 868 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1089 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 929 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1036 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 906 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 804 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 920 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1039 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 956 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1010 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 941 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1000 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 502 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1054 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 994 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 988 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 941 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 910 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 987 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 955 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 967 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 880 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 772 Views

Reply to Message