An average Asha'man will have a lot more raw strength than an average AS, but because they are not particularly well trained I don't think the effectiveness bonus a woman has is as prominent as it is with the AoL Channelers.
That shouldn't really apply.
RJ said women were using less saidar for the same tasks than men use saidin, as their weaves are more efficient. That probably originates in a large part from the very nature of saidar vs. the nature of saidin. Women need to yield in order to control saidar, for men it's always a struggle to control saidin.
It's also more complex than this, as we know saidin is better suited to some tasks, and saidar to others. So, "women's weaves are more efficient and therefore require less raw power" is more the general rule, discounting the exceptions when finesse or raw strength gives a distinct advantage to one sex over the other (which must be frequent, as women are better at handling Air and Water and the men at Fire and Earth).
In other words,the difference should apply just as much if not more to this Age's channellers. You call the Aes Sedai untrained, but they are in fact extremely well-trained at the weaves the WT knows compared to the Asha'man whose training is rushed, and far less diversified than that of Aes Sedai. The gap in experience and knowledge between AS and Asha'man is probably much greater than it stood between male and female channelers of the AOL.
About Gateway size, it's clear there are other factors that may come into play (one of them might have to do with affinity or skills with the Pattern... which in turn seems to be related to affinity for Spirit in channellers, but a similar affinity can be found in non-channellers too (eg: Perrin, Bair, possibly Min) so it's quite possible that same unknown factor X found in channellers and non-channelers and related to the soul has an incidence, manifests itself as a strength or affinity for Spirit too when the person is a channeller) and it's not a very reliable way to judge strength, but strength is a major factor, perhaps simply because a lack of special ability can be compensated by using a great deal more OP to make the gateway. As the special ability with Spirit seems rare (and for now there's no absolte evidence ability with the flow equals automatically better Gateways, better ability with shields and natural ability with dreamwalking... though Egwene was sharp about puzzling out travelling on her own), it would mean for the average channeler strength is a big factor in their maximum gateway size, and mind you, with Callandor perhaps Androl would win the contest. We've seen women use angreal to create larger gateways, we've seen a full circle of thirteen making a large gateway, and we've seen Neald make a larger gateway than he ever could unaided after when he linked with women.
If the general rule applies, and it probably does, it means a large gateway, special skills like Androl's excluded, requires considerably more strength to make for a man than it does for a woman.
This message last edited by DomA on 07/10/2012 at 07:36:49 PM
Problems with gateways
- 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
3049 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
- 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
735 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
- 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
1252 Views
It's been discussed before...
- 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
1609 Views
I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
1266 Views
Re: I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
1390 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
- 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
1380 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
- 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
1278 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
- 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
1623 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
- 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
1097 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
- 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
1292 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
1496 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
1532 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
1301 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
1468 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
- 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
1194 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
- 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
1300 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
- 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
1336 Views
No I think they're more about strength
- 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
1447 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
1318 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
1304 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
1330 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
1277 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
- 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
1371 Views
She did Heal him
- 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
1246 Views
Re-read some stuff
- 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
1331 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
1524 Views
But his thought processes are sound
- 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
1231 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
1297 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
1217 Views
Ummm...
- 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
1203 Views
Re: Ummm...
- 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
1334 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
1164 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM
1376 Views
I think he did
- 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
1301 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
- 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
1205 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
- 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
1190 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
- 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
1208 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
- 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
1139 Views
Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
1103 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
1127 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
1237 Views
AND...
- 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
1100 Views
Re: AND...
- 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
1277 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
1215 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
1261 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
- 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
1194 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
- 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
1284 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
1447 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
1226 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
- 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
1028 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
- 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
1262 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
1235 Views
to the point on the Circle
- 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
1267 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
- 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
1216 Views
I've been thinking about this
- 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
1152 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
- 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
1196 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
- 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
1066 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
- 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
1248 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
- 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
1157 Views
Highly doubtful...
- 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
1197 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
1164 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1208 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
- 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
1168 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
- 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
1220 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
- 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
1229 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
- 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1674 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
- 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
1310 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
- 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
1222 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
- 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
1251 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
- 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
1076 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
- 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
1174 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle
- 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
1174 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
- 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
1213 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
- 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
528 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
- 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
1218 Views
There is so much evidence against this
- 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
1293 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
- 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
1314 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
1150 Views
He's referring to skimming
- 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
1334 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
- 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
1197 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
1225 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1051 Views
Please explain Androl then
- 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
1244 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
- 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
1215 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1244 Views
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1244 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1051 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
- 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
1237 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
- 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
1199 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
- 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
1390 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
- 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
1154 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
- 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
755 Views
I agree with this PoV
- 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
1356 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
1173 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
- 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
1283 Views
I disagree
- 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
1186 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
- 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
1183 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
- 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
1146 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
1365 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1648 Views
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1648 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
1185 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
1142 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
1307 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
- 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
1231 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
1162 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
1441 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
- 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
1118 Views
Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
1266 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
1313 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
1239 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
1361 Views
The point is the same regardless
- 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
1258 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
1362 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
- 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
1273 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
- 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
1241 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
1267 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
1281 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
1305 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
1463 Views

