What I'm getting at is that modern AS haven't really trained well and therefore tend to approach fights as matters of strength. Certainly an air bridge or a fireball or some actual "effect" won't be affected by this. But in battle we've seen time and again that AS don't really know how to use their own strength very well. Even ignoring that men and saidin seems to be more suited to this in the first place, AS skills are underdeveloped in facing other Channelers, most likely they've not been involved in this type of thing in 2000 years or so. So we see a series of bad choices being made almost every time we've seen AS fight.
Look at the examples we do have of them fighting (even non-channelers)
Dumai's Wells ... Kiruna and company march in there and start hurling fireballs around. We know that most AS do not have particular strength in Fire ... so why haven't they investigated more effective (for Female strengths Air and Water) weaves? Right there they gave up any advantage they may have had to a male channeler. While they are wasting strength and fighting to control less natural weaves, the men are doing the same with far less effort because they have more affinity to Fire.
On the more positive side, Galina and her group seemed to be doing quite well against an overwhelming numbers deficit to the WO by playing a defensive game. Makes me think they stuck with using Spirit to slice weaves and Air to create barriers.
Two Rivers
Alanna and Verin don't do much, but what they do accomplish is much the same as what Kiruna and her group did ... used Earth and Fire, exhausting themselves in the effort to create some catapult BS. Again, not much foresight into using their own strengths ... in there had been males fighting them they would have been crushed.
Winter's night and Moiraine are another example ... she started flinging fireballs around ... why not use weaves of Air to create razor sharp objects to slice off heads or Water to potentially drown them, or like Chesmal figured out using healing to kill ... any number of ways to adapt female strengths to be more effective here.
Battle for the Tower
All you have to do is read the Adelorna POV to know what was wrong there ... how long did it take them to figure out that Linking would be better than fighting little side battles against highly trained battle damane? Imagine how much worse it would have been for them if Taim and the Asha'man had decided to invade?
Cleansing
This was probably the closest thing we've seen to a successful fight for the AS and in the end the only Circles that experienced losses were the ones being led by an AS. Daigian lost Eben largely because she wasn't actively channeling when she came across Aran'gar. Verin tried a somewhat idiotic ploy by trying to Shield Graendal (her being BA makes that choice more clear too), why on earth would you attempt to take one of the FS prisoner in the middle of a battle when you have no idea how strong she might be, if she had somehow managed to grab an angreal or what skills she may possess. Verin could have killed Graendal in any number of ways before Graendal even knew what happened ... she didn't notice the Shield coming at her, that could as easily have been a fireball or a lightning strike or something else 100% fatal.
Meantime Damer fights off Demandred and Alivia manages to keep Cyndane at bay ... certainly not with ease, but no one died.
So basically I'm saying that the men (and some of the non-AS women) are already playing to their own strengths, and the AS are actively playing against their strengths, thus taking away at least part of the Dexterity bonus they receive on their Strength ... hope that is more clear than before.
Look at the examples we do have of them fighting (even non-channelers)
Dumai's Wells ... Kiruna and company march in there and start hurling fireballs around. We know that most AS do not have particular strength in Fire ... so why haven't they investigated more effective (for Female strengths Air and Water) weaves? Right there they gave up any advantage they may have had to a male channeler. While they are wasting strength and fighting to control less natural weaves, the men are doing the same with far less effort because they have more affinity to Fire.
On the more positive side, Galina and her group seemed to be doing quite well against an overwhelming numbers deficit to the WO by playing a defensive game. Makes me think they stuck with using Spirit to slice weaves and Air to create barriers.
Two Rivers
Alanna and Verin don't do much, but what they do accomplish is much the same as what Kiruna and her group did ... used Earth and Fire, exhausting themselves in the effort to create some catapult BS. Again, not much foresight into using their own strengths ... in there had been males fighting them they would have been crushed.
Winter's night and Moiraine are another example ... she started flinging fireballs around ... why not use weaves of Air to create razor sharp objects to slice off heads or Water to potentially drown them, or like Chesmal figured out using healing to kill ... any number of ways to adapt female strengths to be more effective here.
Battle for the Tower
All you have to do is read the Adelorna POV to know what was wrong there ... how long did it take them to figure out that Linking would be better than fighting little side battles against highly trained battle damane? Imagine how much worse it would have been for them if Taim and the Asha'man had decided to invade?
Cleansing
This was probably the closest thing we've seen to a successful fight for the AS and in the end the only Circles that experienced losses were the ones being led by an AS. Daigian lost Eben largely because she wasn't actively channeling when she came across Aran'gar. Verin tried a somewhat idiotic ploy by trying to Shield Graendal (her being BA makes that choice more clear too), why on earth would you attempt to take one of the FS prisoner in the middle of a battle when you have no idea how strong she might be, if she had somehow managed to grab an angreal or what skills she may possess. Verin could have killed Graendal in any number of ways before Graendal even knew what happened ... she didn't notice the Shield coming at her, that could as easily have been a fireball or a lightning strike or something else 100% fatal.
Meantime Damer fights off Demandred and Alivia manages to keep Cyndane at bay ... certainly not with ease, but no one died.
So basically I'm saying that the men (and some of the non-AS women) are already playing to their own strengths, and the AS are actively playing against their strengths, thus taking away at least part of the Dexterity bonus they receive on their Strength ... hope that is more clear than before.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Problems with gateways
- 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
3049 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
- 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
735 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
- 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
1252 Views
It's been discussed before...
- 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
1608 Views
I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
1266 Views
Re: I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
1390 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
- 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
1379 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
- 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
1277 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
- 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
1623 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
- 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
1097 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
- 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
1291 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
1496 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
1532 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
1301 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
1468 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
- 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
1193 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
- 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
1300 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
- 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
1336 Views
No I think they're more about strength
- 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
1447 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
1318 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
1303 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
1329 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
1275 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
- 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
1371 Views
She did Heal him
- 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
1246 Views
Re-read some stuff
- 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
1331 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
1523 Views
But his thought processes are sound
- 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
1230 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
1295 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
1217 Views
Ummm...
- 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
1202 Views
Re: Ummm...
- 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
1334 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
1164 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM
1374 Views
I wasn't being very clear
- 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM
1301 Views
I think he did
- 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
1299 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
- 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
1205 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
- 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
1190 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
- 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
1206 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
- 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
1139 Views
Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
1103 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
1127 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
1237 Views
AND...
- 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
1100 Views
Re: AND...
- 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
1277 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
1215 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
1261 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
- 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
1194 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
- 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
1284 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
1447 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
1226 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
- 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
1028 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
- 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
1260 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
1235 Views
to the point on the Circle
- 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
1266 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
- 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
1216 Views
I've been thinking about this
- 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
1152 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
- 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
1194 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
- 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
1065 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
- 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
1248 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
- 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
1155 Views
Highly doubtful...
- 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
1197 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
1162 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1206 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
- 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
1168 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
- 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
1220 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
- 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
1229 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
- 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1674 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
- 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
1310 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
- 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
1222 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
- 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
1251 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
- 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
1076 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
- 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
1174 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle
- 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
1174 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
- 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
1213 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
- 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
528 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
- 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
1218 Views
There is so much evidence against this
- 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
1293 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
- 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
1314 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
1150 Views
He's referring to skimming
- 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
1334 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
- 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
1197 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
1225 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1049 Views
Please explain Androl then
- 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
1242 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
- 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
1214 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1244 Views
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1244 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1049 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
- 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
1237 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
- 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
1199 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
- 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
1390 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
- 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
1154 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
- 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
755 Views
I agree with this PoV
- 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
1356 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
1173 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
- 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
1283 Views
I disagree
- 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
1184 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
- 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
1183 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
- 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
1146 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
1365 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1648 Views
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1648 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
1185 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
1141 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
1305 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
- 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
1231 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
1162 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
1441 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
- 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
1118 Views
Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
1266 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
1313 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
1237 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
1361 Views
The point is the same regardless
- 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
1256 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
1362 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
- 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
1272 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
- 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
1240 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
1267 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
1281 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
1305 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
1461 Views

