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I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious Send a noteboard - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
Think it through guys. The most obvious examples we have of Talents that are anything BUT rare are Healing and Traveling. They both involve weaves and nearly every Channeler we've come across has at least some ability with them. The level of ability is what fluctuates from person to person. Greater Talent means greater ability to modulate the weave and thus create a wider array of effects than others. With Healing this generally means a woman can Heal more serious wounds, or like Samistu can lessen the shock to the patients body and perform a delicate healing with a fundamentaly blunt weave. On the flip side Egwene can't even close Gawyns wounds fully despite a massive strength difference. Same holds true for gateways. Androl can use a drop of the Power to make one large enough for a wagon, but Flinn pours exponentially more power into a smaller gateway.

This is not a case of the talent itself being rare, it illustrates that there are extremes with Talents. It also proves OP strength is not what determines the end effect of weave involving a Talent.

I wonder what would happen if Androl or Flinn were given angreal ... Would they be able to make larger gateways or would they simply be able to make more gateways of the same size ... Rand seems to think there is a limit to the size any individual can make, and he clearly reached his max size gateway with only a small portion of his strength and thus generates many at the same time. I suspect we would see multiple gateways of the same size rather than larger ones from Flinn, but possibly larger ones from Androl. At least until he reached the edge of his talent.


People who can Heal don't all have a Talent. Teslyn almost passes out when she Heals - and yet you would count her among your abundant Healers. No, a Healer is someone who can Heal miraculously with a fraction of her strength, like Nynaeve, Moiraine, Samitsu etc.

I don't agree that Elayne has a Travelling Talent just because she can Travel. The weave works for her, but you need to be exceptional to have a Talent. Egwene, and possibly Leane are the only women with cuendillar Talents. You can't count all those women who sit on a small piece of iron for an hour to make a piece of cuendillar.

I think a lot of our debate centers on our individual definitions of a Talent. Perhaps you think that anyone who plays the piano has Talent, but I personally think that most people can given practice and that true Talent lies only in the hands of exceptional musicians.
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2923 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1499 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1141 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1282 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1441 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1277 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1161 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1202 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1178 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1303 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 975 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1181 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1207 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1285 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1372 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1185 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 601 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1407 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1163 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1341 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1094 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1190 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1216 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1352 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1198 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1199 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1213 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1178 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1260 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1131 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1140 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1207 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1047 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1182 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1411 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1100 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1176 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1116 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1154 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1099 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1220 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1045 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1251 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1181 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1194 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1096 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1090 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1070 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1100 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 974 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1021 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1134 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 990 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1162 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 966 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1091 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1159 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1143 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1159 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1340 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1118 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1038 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 885 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1150 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1076 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1109 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1125 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1093 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1098 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1046 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1082 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 953 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1126 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1028 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1073 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1061 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1080 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1042 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1108 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1102 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1550 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1078 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1084 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1060 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1110 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 481 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1037 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1089 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1181 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1173 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1039 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 785 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1230 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1076 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1071 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1181 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1111 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1121 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1076 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1115 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1147 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 976 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 943 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1046 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1112 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1094 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 699 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1063 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1208 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1043 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1174 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1097 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1067 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1229 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 995 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1497 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1044 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1188 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1160 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1053 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1313 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1103 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1224 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1110 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 985 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1141 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1207 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1135 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1242 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1161 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1194 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 589 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1249 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1163 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1164 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1128 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1102 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1174 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1086 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 966 Views

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