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I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious Send a noteboard - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
Think it through guys. The most obvious examples we have of Talents that are anything BUT rare are Healing and Traveling. They both involve weaves and nearly every Channeler we've come across has at least some ability with them. The level of ability is what fluctuates from person to person. Greater Talent means greater ability to modulate the weave and thus create a wider array of effects than others. With Healing this generally means a woman can Heal more serious wounds, or like Samistu can lessen the shock to the patients body and perform a delicate healing with a fundamentaly blunt weave. On the flip side Egwene can't even close Gawyns wounds fully despite a massive strength difference. Same holds true for gateways. Androl can use a drop of the Power to make one large enough for a wagon, but Flinn pours exponentially more power into a smaller gateway.

This is not a case of the talent itself being rare, it illustrates that there are extremes with Talents. It also proves OP strength is not what determines the end effect of weave involving a Talent.

I wonder what would happen if Androl or Flinn were given angreal ... Would they be able to make larger gateways or would they simply be able to make more gateways of the same size ... Rand seems to think there is a limit to the size any individual can make, and he clearly reached his max size gateway with only a small portion of his strength and thus generates many at the same time. I suspect we would see multiple gateways of the same size rather than larger ones from Flinn, but possibly larger ones from Androl. At least until he reached the edge of his talent.


People who can Heal don't all have a Talent. Teslyn almost passes out when she Heals - and yet you would count her among your abundant Healers. No, a Healer is someone who can Heal miraculously with a fraction of her strength, like Nynaeve, Moiraine, Samitsu etc.

I don't agree that Elayne has a Travelling Talent just because she can Travel. The weave works for her, but you need to be exceptional to have a Talent. Egwene, and possibly Leane are the only women with cuendillar Talents. You can't count all those women who sit on a small piece of iron for an hour to make a piece of cuendillar.

I think a lot of our debate centers on our individual definitions of a Talent. Perhaps you think that anyone who plays the piano has Talent, but I personally think that most people can given practice and that true Talent lies only in the hands of exceptional musicians.
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2979 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1540 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1177 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1323 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1487 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1308 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1196 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1235 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1226 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1348 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1023 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1222 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1244 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1325 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1416 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1248 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 629 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1459 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1207 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1389 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1131 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1241 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1258 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1385 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1256 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1236 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1262 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1205 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1303 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1171 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1178 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1252 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1120 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1237 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1451 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1151 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1227 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1150 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1190 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1131 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1253 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1086 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1305 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1225 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1228 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1142 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1136 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1119 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1136 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1031 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1059 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1174 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1029 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1209 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 994 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1127 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1196 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1212 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1221 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1392 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1162 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1082 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 927 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1197 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1122 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1163 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1182 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1135 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1147 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1084 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1115 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 986 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1171 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1085 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1129 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1089 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1128 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1085 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1146 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1153 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1592 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1140 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1142 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1112 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1146 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 504 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1073 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1164 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1230 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1236 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1079 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 811 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1267 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1118 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1117 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1238 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1153 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1168 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1124 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1168 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1203 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1018 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 983 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1083 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1154 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1134 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 725 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1108 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1279 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1099 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1215 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1123 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1121 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1288 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1034 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1565 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1079 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1225 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1237 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1101 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1358 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1146 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1264 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1150 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1042 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1199 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1238 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1164 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1290 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1189 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1247 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 613 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1288 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1204 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1234 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1192 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1165 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1235 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1132 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1013 Views

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