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I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA Send a noteboard - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
By your definition Healing and Traveling are not Talents at all. We know there are degrees of Talent just as we know there are differences in OP Strength. We've been told over and over about the degrees of the Healing Talent (practically every time Healing is mentioned it comes up), why should we think that other Talents are any different? Given how scientific RJs system is I find this completely natural.

What you are looking at are only the outliers, and it's sort of like saying only Lanfear is really a Channeler because of her extreme strength, everyone else doesn't really have the ability because they are not outliers and therefor don't count.


Talent is a most imprecise term. It's not a OP term, for one thing. It's also used for other special abilities like Ogier Singing.

Then the AS themselves use it in very different contexts. They use it to describe lost abilities from the past, always with a kind of reverence (thus presumably the capital). While they didn't remember how Travelling worked, they called it a "lost Talent". As it's weave that so far nobody with the proper strength proved unable to make, they no longer call it a Talent. That's the second context AS use the capitalized word for: weaves for which skills vary very significantly from one sister to another, and there's evidence it's not exclusively related to strength (ie: even an angreal wouldn't be much help).They use Talent when a skill really stands out. That's the case of Healing and it might because it's such a key skill for one Ajah (not to mention it used to be the most celebrated AS skill in the AOL), but for most other skills varying because of a mix of strength and flow affinities, Aes Sedai rather sometimes speak of "their talents" without a capital. Then they call Talent abilities they believe related to the OP but in truth don't understand much at all, like Dreaming, Foretelling, seing ta'veren etc.

For Androl ability with Gateways, Aes Sedai might use talent or Talent, depending on context and how much emphasis they wish to put on his special skills with the weave. I get the feeling a lot would formulate it like this "he was so good with that weave that with him it was close to a Talent", like they might say Egwene's ability with cuendillar stands out so much it's almost a Talent with her.

Bottomline, Talent is used largely for lack of a better, more accurate explanation of someone skills (Egwene's so called Talent for cuendillar actually belong with her other special abilties with metals, which is in turn connected to her special aptitudes with Earth, rare in women). I get the feeling the capitalized word "Talent" was used far less liberally in the AOL.
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3025 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1588 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1234 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1367 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1566 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1353 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1248 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1276 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1267 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1398 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1070 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1269 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1308 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1379 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1468 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1294 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 647 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1509 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1282 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1433 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1175 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1277 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1307 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1422 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1298 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1285 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1301 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1251 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1346 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1210 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1218 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1301 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1178 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1274 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1495 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1196 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1270 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1190 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1224 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1177 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1305 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1135 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1354 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1275 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1277 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1178 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1194 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1156 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1179 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1069 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1101 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1210 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1079 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1249 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1048 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1184 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1234 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1259 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1261 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1427 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1205 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1132 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 998 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1234 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1163 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1214 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1238 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1188 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1187 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1135 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1164 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1040 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1219 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1135 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1174 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1137 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1174 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1139 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1190 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1200 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1647 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1190 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1185 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1156 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1187 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 516 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1109 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1202 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1271 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1288 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1126 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 828 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1311 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1169 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1157 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1296 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1204 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1212 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1182 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1211 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1249 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1072 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1022 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1127 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1199 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1176 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 742 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1153 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1329 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1143 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1261 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1159 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1162 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1336 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1081 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1616 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1122 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1278 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1278 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1142 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1416 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1188 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1319 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1199 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1097 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1243 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1280 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1209 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1335 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1234 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1286 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 629 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1336 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1244 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1277 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1230 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1232 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1305 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1173 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1063 Views

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