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Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg Send a noteboard - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
but RJ had a degree in physics and seems to have tried to construct his world so that there is a sort of consistency with the magic powers he invented for his world and the natural laws we are used to. So I thought I might ask the question and see if there are other factors he introduced to explain away the obvious problems with using gateways.
A little learning is a dangerous thing.
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3002 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 708 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1202 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1563 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1207 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1344 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1338 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1221 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1520 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1327 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1219 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1258 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1247 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1368 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1043 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1249 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1273 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1346 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1444 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1272 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 637 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1482 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1232 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1411 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1155 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1261 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1282 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1411 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1281 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1260 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1283 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1229 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1322 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1189 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1196 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1284 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1150 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1256 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1471 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1171 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1252 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1170 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1209 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1154 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1273 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1111 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1332 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1247 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1252 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1162 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1157 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1140 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1158 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1137 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1168 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 1092 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1049 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1080 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1192 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1051 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1231 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1019 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1151 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1212 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1148 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1238 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1244 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1410 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1181 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1112 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 973 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1217 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1138 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1187 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1213 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1159 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1165 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1106 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1142 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1013 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1196 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1113 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1152 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1109 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1148 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1107 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1169 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1179 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1619 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1264 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1163 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1164 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1203 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 1064 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 1035 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1135 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1135 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1167 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 510 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1089 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1183 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1249 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1262 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1100 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 818 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1289 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1144 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1134 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1274 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1179 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1188 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1157 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1191 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1225 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1045 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1002 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1184 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1157 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1322 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1106 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1173 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1153 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 730 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1131 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1307 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1121 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1240 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1144 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1143 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 1099 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1314 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1063 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1591 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1135 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1101 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1255 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1187 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1260 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1118 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1383 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1165 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1285 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1173 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1066 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1226 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1260 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1188 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1311 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1207 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1265 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 618 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1314 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1227 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1254 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1210 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1196 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1200 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1267 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1234 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1245 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1402 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1152 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1038 Views
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