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Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious Send a noteboard - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
In Chapter 56 of TOM

He focused. Making gateways came so much easier to him than other weaves did; he'd never understood why. Though he couldn't break even a small rock apart by channeling, he could make a gateway large enough for a wagon to drive through.


I don't know why its controversial. As you showed he directly alludes to the fact that his gateways are much larger than they should be, and with minimal effort. He seems to have the same sort of disproportionate ability that Berowin had with shielding.

Gateways are obviously proportional to strength, but Talent is also there. There's also the fact that gateways are limited to 4x4 paces no matter how strong you are, and that Rand can make several of this size at the same time.
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2914 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 664 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1125 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1487 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1127 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1273 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1252 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1152 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1425 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1267 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1151 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1190 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1170 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1291 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 964 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1171 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1199 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1274 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1362 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1172 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 597 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1392 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1152 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1331 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1082 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1171 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1205 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1341 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1177 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1187 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1202 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1167 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1249 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1123 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1128 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1195 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1026 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1171 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1400 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1089 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1166 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1106 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1146 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1089 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1209 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1038 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1239 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1170 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1183 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1087 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1073 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1051 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1090 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1070 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1085 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 1028 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 954 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1010 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1123 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 979 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1142 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 955 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1079 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1149 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1056 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1123 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1145 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1322 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1110 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1028 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 875 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1140 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1066 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1098 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1116 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1083 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1086 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1034 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1070 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 949 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1118 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1015 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1055 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1051 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1062 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1031 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1097 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1091 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1515 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1176 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1066 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1074 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1127 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 1000 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 961 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1070 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1050 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1103 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 477 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1026 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1070 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1168 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1153 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1027 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 780 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1220 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1066 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1061 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1169 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1102 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1114 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1064 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1101 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1137 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 965 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 933 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1089 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1078 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1258 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1036 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1097 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1085 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 695 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1052 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1196 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1026 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1162 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1083 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1054 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 1036 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1217 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 981 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1481 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1062 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1033 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1177 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1111 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1138 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1035 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1298 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1093 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1214 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1091 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 973 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1119 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1197 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1125 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1221 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1151 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1175 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 584 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1235 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1152 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1145 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1122 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1115 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1091 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1155 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1133 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1142 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1315 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1080 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 956 Views
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