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I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
In Chapter 56 of TOM

He focused. Making gateways came so much easier to him than other weaves did; he'd never understood why. Though he couldn't break even a small rock apart by channeling, he could make a gateway large enough for a wagon to drive through.


I don't know why its controversial. As you showed he directly alludes to the fact that his gateways are much larger than they should be, and with minimal effort. He seems to have the same sort of disproportionate ability that Berowin had with shielding.

Gateways are obviously proportional to strength, but Talent is also there. There's also the fact that gateways are limited to 4x4 paces no matter how strong you are, and that Rand can make several of this size at the same time.


The man is as weak as Morgase, yet can open a gateway on par with Rand? Throws the strength correlation out the window. Obviously the weaker the Talent the more Strength is necessary to make a gateway weave operational, but just as clearly a strong Talent is more important to the ability. Much like Siuan having the same Healing ability after her strength decrease.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3129 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 778 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1332 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1682 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1351 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1472 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1452 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1349 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1719 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1441 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1355 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1384 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1373 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1516 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1171 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1376 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1412 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1488 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1577 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1405 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 698 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1615 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1387 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1553 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1277 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1367 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1429 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1535 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1393 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1395 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1408 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1358 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1460 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1323 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1339 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1415 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1282 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1393 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1605 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1317 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1384 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1299 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1318 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1279 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1409 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1232 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1455 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1383 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1371 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1275 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1299 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1264 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1285 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1270 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1288 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 1217 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1180 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1219 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1308 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1181 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1367 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1159 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1282 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1332 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1293 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1365 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1377 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1522 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1311 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1236 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 1108 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1338 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1273 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1317 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1341 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1291 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1298 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1234 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1272 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1145 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1336 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1232 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1271 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1241 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1289 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1253 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1301 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1310 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1758 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1400 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1303 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1301 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1340 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 1179 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 1162 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1259 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1259 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1294 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 572 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1226 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1304 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1373 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1396 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1233 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 881 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1409 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1279 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1260 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1404 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1301 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1320 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1286 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1327 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1356 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1166 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1126 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1327 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1282 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1469 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1235 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1296 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1280 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 804 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1265 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1442 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1258 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1359 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1260 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1265 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 1229 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1444 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1195 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1735 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1266 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1220 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1392 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1320 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1380 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1238 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1527 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1289 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1443 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1310 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1189 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1353 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1391 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1321 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1447 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1343 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1395 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 681 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1445 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1353 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1376 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1340 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1315 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1347 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1431 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1366 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1395 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1548 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1303 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1178 Views
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