Active Users:338 Time:17/06/2025 05:29:58 PM
I know DomA Send a noteboard - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM
Suana herself states its not all about Healing ability, but the desire to fix that which is broken. Like almost all AS the Yellow are more like scholars than Doctors. They seem to be more interested in study and Politics just like other AS. Which is why Romanda is amazed with how many Wise Women have such Talent with Healing.


I know, that's why I think Yellows never developped Healing between the "all-heal" weave inherited from the Breaking. They don't even think like medical doctors.

These are the women with the calling, who all coincidentally are born with the Healing Talent?


No, I'm saying these women knew how to heal long before they learned their had the ability. It's not surprising the ability to heal with the OP comes more naturally to them than it does for other channelers. Of course for some of them it would not go far, because they don't have the skill to handle the five flows well enough. Still, channelling is a mental skill and these women think like Doctors. It's not surprising they approach the OP abilities from this frame of mind, and have more success than others at it.

It's the whole mentality of "Talent" that's muddling everything. AS call Talent anything someone shows a proclitivity for, without questionning what might explain why a person might be exceptional at handling the OP this way.


Nowhere have we seen the ability to change ones inherent OP skills through training or other methods.


That's largely because the WT system discouraged this, I think. Women there developped their scholarly and political knowledge and very little else. The WT is also not very interested in practical use of the OP, beyond documenting evidence of what they once were able to do and now have lost.

We've seen women develop new skills... Elayne learned to handle large flows for the weather with a SF. This is also how the WO teach apprentices, and we also have some of the Kin who over centuries of empirical practice became very good at (the old) Healing.

Why should human interests effect your OP ability?


Why not? Weaving is a mental discipline, why your mind, your interests, your already developped skills wouldn't influence the skills you develop with the OP?

You think it's a coincidence that a woman as curious of everything as Egwene is the one who makes so many varied discoveries?

You think it's a coincidence as woman obsessed with inflicting in all imaginable and refined ways pain to a human body and who as a matter of survival had to hide those proclivities has developped amazing skills as a Healer, or that a woman trained in healing the human mind without the OP, to the point of being the most revered psychiatrist of her time just happened to also develop the most amazing skills at Compulsion?

Seems much more plausible that a natural proclivity would gently push a person down the path.


That smacks of predestinity way too much for me. It also seems to give the OP ability a "mind of its own" and to evacuate way too much from the equation environmental factors, like developped or acquired skills and knowledge, education etc. Few people ever develop all their natural skills.

If that was the case Egwene would be a better Healer, she did train for it under Nynaeve.


Egwene was never that interested in Healing. Egwene is interested in way too many things to focus obsessively on something like Nynaeve. And guess what, she doesn't have a very dominant Talent either. She's one of those with a decent balance between the five flows, and very good at doing many things at once. She's got a strength in earth, but she can do many things with it. She's the type to learn something to a level she's happy with and move on to learn something else. Her channelling ability reflects that.



In the end I doubt there is a "right" answer


I doubt it too. I get the feeling Jordan would have said there's a bit of both in play. I just happen to believe your OP ability is shaped far more by who you are than the latent ability "magically" guiding you on a life path. That a latent potential for handling the five flows in Healing makes you interested in Healing and the human body years before you even start to channel smacks of magic to me. It just seems so much more plausible that years of experience at Healing without the OP provides a channeler with the right worldview to develop a natural affinity to use the OP for healing once that person learn to channel. In the end, channeling seems to be a lot a matter of will and desire to create/do something. Egwene thinks about stuff like this a lot, and I don't think it's a coincidence solutions to use the OP to do what she wants come intuitively to her.
Reply to message
Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2907 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1480 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1124 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1265 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1418 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1262 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1146 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1180 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1163 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1283 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 957 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1167 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1193 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1268 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1355 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1164 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 595 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1381 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1145 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1322 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1078 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1162 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1197 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1337 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1168 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1181 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1196 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1159 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1244 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1118 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1122 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1188 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1017 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1167 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1393 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1083 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1159 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1102 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1141 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1085 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1202 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1031 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1234 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1163 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1177 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1081 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1064 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1042 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1085 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 947 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1004 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1118 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 971 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1135 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 950 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1070 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1140 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1115 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1141 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1312 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1104 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1022 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 870 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1136 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1060 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1091 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1110 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1078 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1081 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1030 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1065 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 944 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1114 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1011 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1047 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1046 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1054 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1023 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1093 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1087 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1501 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1060 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1067 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1042 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1097 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 475 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1020 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1062 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1162 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1145 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1021 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 778 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1215 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1062 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1055 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1165 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1097 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1108 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1058 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1094 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1130 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 958 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 929 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1031 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1092 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1080 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 693 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1045 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1193 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1018 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1159 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1077 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1047 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1211 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 977 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1472 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1028 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1172 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1129 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1026 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1291 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1087 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1204 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1084 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 968 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1109 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1193 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1120 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1212 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1145 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1166 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 583 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1230 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1146 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1136 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1116 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1086 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1146 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1075 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 951 Views

Reply to Message