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I agree with this PoV Sidious Send a noteboard - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
I think my problem with the other two posters is that they aren't appreciating the actual nature of a Talent.
1. Its rare
2. It implies ability that is out of proportion to that which is expected.

It seems to me that most channelers have an average Talent in gateways, meaning that they can modulate the weave enough to make a gateway (we know that the weave can be tweaked to alter destination, character etc.) However, I think people with a high Talent are relatively rare... I would suggest Rand, Demandred, Semirhage, Androl, Reanne... maybe Beonin (I haven't checked Darius' reference). I think that those with low Talent merely struggle to Travel, I'm not sure if they actually suffer from smaller gateways. We know that both Aviendha and Flinn can compensate but channeling more into the weave, and considering Rand can make six gateways with his strength, it stands to reason that a low Talent is merely frustrating from a channeler but not visually noticeable. Which means that gateway size correlates well with channeler strength unless they have a high Talent, which seems to be rare.

the fact that every witness to the effect including LTT/Rand acknowledges that gateway size is directly linked to strength.

Rand/LTT measures Asha'man strength based on gateway size usually.

More importantly, either EVERY weave is based on Talent or "Talent" indicates something that is abnormal. Like I mentioned most "Talents" are about modulating a weave and most weaves have a specific effect that will happen when you reach the power level. If there are variations in that effect it is due to a person's strength in a power or to a Talent. The more basic the weave the more the weave is dependent upon the channelers OP strength and their strength in the power of the element being used.

It seems that modulation is the key to a Talent, thus its critical role in Healing. Talent is probably also an affinity to the Source in some way.

What I said above in a different post is that because Gateways are made of only Spirit and Spirit is the power people are equally "strong" in, that the variation in sizes will correspond directly to the channelers strength. Similar to how people strong in Earth are required to effectively make heartstone. Strength in Earth varies from person to person, Spirit does not. Because "strength" in Spirit is equal a stronger channeler will be stronger in Spirit. But being able to modify it beyond that would require a Talent for manipulating that specific weave.

Well men Travel with Spirit and Fire, though Fire shouldn't be a problem for a man.
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3001 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 708 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1198 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1561 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1205 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1344 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1336 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1219 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1518 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1326 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1217 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1258 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1247 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1368 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1041 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1247 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1272 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1346 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1441 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1270 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 637 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1481 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1232 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1409 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1154 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1259 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1281 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1409 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1280 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1260 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1282 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1227 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1320 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1188 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1195 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1283 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1149 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1254 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1469 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1170 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1251 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1169 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1208 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1154 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1272 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1109 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1332 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1247 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1250 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1160 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1156 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1139 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1156 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1137 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1168 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 1090 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1049 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1078 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1191 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1051 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1229 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1018 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1150 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1211 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1146 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1238 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1243 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1408 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1179 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1111 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 971 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1216 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1137 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1185 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1211 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1158 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1163 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1105 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1142 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1012 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1195 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1112 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1151 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1108 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1146 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1106 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1167 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1179 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1617 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1262 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1162 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1163 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1202 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 1063 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 1035 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1133 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1133 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1166 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 509 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1088 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1183 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1247 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1259 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1100 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 818 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1287 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1143 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1132 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1273 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1178 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1187 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1155 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1189 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1224 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1043 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 999 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1183 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1156 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1321 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1104 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1173 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1151 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 730 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1130 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1305 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1120 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1239 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1142 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1142 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 1099 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1312 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1062 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1589 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1133 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1101 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1253 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1185 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1259 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1116 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1381 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1165 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1285 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1173 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1065 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1225 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1259 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1187 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1310 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1205 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1265 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 618 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1313 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1226 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1252 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1210 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1194 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1198 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1265 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1232 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1244 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1401 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1152 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1036 Views
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