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Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma Send a noteboard - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
A few things to Note:

Talent in Healing wasn't the main objective ... his actual physical wounds were relatively minor, and even Nynaeve couldn't Heal him (she tried the day before and it did nothing). And there was the issue of who Siuan felt she could trust ... 3 Blues (close friends of either herself or Moiraine) and a friend from her Novice days were in that circle ... along with Verin, who she clearly already trusted. Serafelle was the only wild card there of the named women so perhaps she had a strong healing talent.

Regardless, there are several women with not inconsiderable Talent in the circle ... Anaiya has been spoken of as a strong healer (Lan took a dying Moiraine to her prior to the series for healing). Alanna is a quite strong healer as we saw in the Two Rivers, Verin and Siuan are both at least on the Average side ... of the others the only one we know to be a truly POOR healer is Sheriam, we don't have much information on Serafelle other than she is Brown and I don't recall ever hearing anything about Leane's healing ability. No other women are named, although Alviarin is likely the "Cool eyed White" ... the remaining two unnamed Sisters could easily have been Yellows, Samitsu or someone nearly as Talented could have been involved for all we know.

We also know that links enhance abilities by a large amount (Bowl of the Winds) so having several women with good healing talent probably gave them what they needed.

However, I never thought they were as concerned with the Healing aspect as much as they were digging the taint from Mat's soul. Most of the process was focussed on prying the Dagger from him and THEN healing him. he nearly died in the first part and his body's strength tapped out to the very limit, but from what we know in later books only a strong body would have been able to survive the process in the first place.

Suffice to say I don't think they really formed that circle with only Healing in mind ... and if they really wanted to focus on power, why not have the 13 strongest women in the tower, each with an angreal, link and purge him?


I don't remember the AS involved using any term but Healing and we know that AS only use one healing weave at this point. And while being good healers may have been useful those you mentioned were not leading the circle and so whatever Talent they had was not being utilized. For all intents and purposes they were batteries. And to your last point these are some of the strongest sisters.
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2907 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 660 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1117 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1480 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1124 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1265 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1246 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1145 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1418 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1261 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1145 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1180 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1163 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1283 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 957 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1167 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1192 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1268 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1354 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1164 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 595 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1381 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1145 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1322 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1078 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1162 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1196 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1336 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1167 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1181 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1196 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1158 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1244 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1117 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1122 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1188 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1017 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1167 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1392 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1083 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1159 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1102 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1141 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1085 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1202 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1031 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1233 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1162 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1176 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1081 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1063 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1042 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1084 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1063 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1078 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 1019 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 946 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1003 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1118 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 971 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1134 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 950 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1069 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1139 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1049 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1114 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1141 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1312 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1104 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1021 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 869 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1136 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1060 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1091 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1110 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1078 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1081 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1030 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1065 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 944 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1113 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1011 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1047 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1045 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1053 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1022 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1093 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1087 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1501 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1172 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1059 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1067 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1120 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 995 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 956 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1066 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1042 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1097 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 475 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1020 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1062 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1161 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1145 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1020 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 778 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1215 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1062 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1055 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1164 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1096 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1108 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1058 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1094 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1130 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 957 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 928 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1084 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1071 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1253 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1030 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1091 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1080 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 693 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1044 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1192 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1018 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1158 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1077 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1047 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 1031 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1211 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 976 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1471 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1055 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1028 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1171 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1103 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1128 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1026 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1290 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1087 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1203 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1084 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 968 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1109 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1192 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1119 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1212 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1145 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1166 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 583 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1229 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1146 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1135 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1116 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1110 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1086 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1146 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1126 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1137 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1310 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1075 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 950 Views
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