The cool eyed White was Brendas. We get conformation in LoC.
As for Talents, there's an RJ quote somewhere saying that a circle doesn't add up the Talents of its members. Their strengths in the five powers aren't added either. However, if various circle members have related or complementary Talents suited to a task, then you pick them no matter the strength because they can pass control of the circle around as need demands. We've seen from the bonding of Rand that two linked women can complete a single weave by passing control around. So you can pick a man and a woman with great Healing Talent, and link them with another man who may be uselss, and then have the man and woman pass control around based on what kind of Healing may be needed, since men are better than women in some aspects, and vice versa.
Likely the same kind of thing was done for ter'angreal.
Will reply to the rest of the stuff later, but agree with you on the other posts. Great job!
As for Talents, there's an RJ quote somewhere saying that a circle doesn't add up the Talents of its members. Their strengths in the five powers aren't added either. However, if various circle members have related or complementary Talents suited to a task, then you pick them no matter the strength because they can pass control of the circle around as need demands. We've seen from the bonding of Rand that two linked women can complete a single weave by passing control around. So you can pick a man and a woman with great Healing Talent, and link them with another man who may be uselss, and then have the man and woman pass control around based on what kind of Healing may be needed, since men are better than women in some aspects, and vice versa.
Likely the same kind of thing was done for ter'angreal.
Will reply to the rest of the stuff later, but agree with you on the other posts. Great job!
And we have at least 1 example of an incident that does NOT align with what you are saying. The Gateway 13 Rebel sisters make for the Army:
The Path of Daggers
Chapter 30
Beginnings
The light of saidar sprang up around the thirteen sisters near the Sitters, around all of them together, and a thick slash of silver appeared in the middle of the clearing, rotating into a gateway ten paces tall and a hundred wide.
that gateways is exponentially larger than what any other "standard" AS could generate on her own ... seems to me that to at even 13 fairly strong sisters should not be able to make one so large without the Talent also being exponential. 13 AS linked are probably no more than 4x Rand's strength (assuming they are strong sisters) but even if they were 5x or 6x his strength they still should not be able to make a gateway this large.
Rand can make one of 144sq feet ... this monstrosity is 9,000sq feet ... and is only being powered by at MOST 6x Rand's strength ... smacks of cumulative Talent to me
I don't think 13 women as strong as Lanfear should be able to do this if Talent isn't cumulative too
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 07/10/2012 at 11:12:43 PM
Problems with gateways
- 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
3003 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
- 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
712 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
- 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
1206 Views
It's been discussed before...
- 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
1567 Views
I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
1210 Views
Re: I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
1350 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
- 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
1340 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
- 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
1224 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
- 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
1525 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
- 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
1047 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
- 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
1254 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
1452 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
1486 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
1242 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
1414 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
- 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
1157 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
- 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
1261 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
- 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
1287 Views
No I think they're more about strength
- 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
1411 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
1284 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
1264 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
1286 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
1230 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
- 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
1326 Views
She did Heal him
- 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
1191 Views
Re-read some stuff
- 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
1286 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
1472 Views
But his thought processes are sound
- 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
1174 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
1254 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
1171 Views
Ummm...
- 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
1154 Views
Re: Ummm...
- 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
1280 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
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I think he did
- 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
1256 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
- 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
1162 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
- 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
1138 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
- 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
1169 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
- 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
1094 Views
Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
1055 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
1082 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
1195 Views
AND...
- 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
1052 Views
Re: AND...
- 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
1232 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
1155 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
1213 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
- 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
1151 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
- 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
1241 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
1411 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
1184 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
- 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
977 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
- 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
1219 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
1189 Views
to the point on the Circle
- 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
1215 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
- 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
1163 Views
I've been thinking about this
- 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
1112 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
- 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
1147 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
- 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
1015 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
- 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
1201 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
- 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
1117 Views
Highly doubtful...
- 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
1155 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
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Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1150 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
- 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
1111 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
- 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
1170 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
- 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
1182 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
- 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1622 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
- 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
1264 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
- 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
1166 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
- 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
1204 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
- 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
1037 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
- 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
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Re: to the point on the Circle
- 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
1137 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
- 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
1172 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
- 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
510 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
- 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
1185 Views
There is so much evidence against this
- 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
1252 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
- 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
1267 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
1104 Views
He's referring to skimming
- 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
1291 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
- 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
1146 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
1181 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1004 Views
Please explain Androl then
- 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
1191 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
- 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
1158 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1195 Views
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1195 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1004 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
- 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
1190 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
- 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
1159 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
- 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
1328 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
- 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
1108 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
- 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
732 Views
I agree with this PoV
- 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
1310 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
1125 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
- 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
1243 Views
I disagree
- 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
1144 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
- 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
1145 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
- 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
1102 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
1316 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1595 Views
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1595 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
1135 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
1105 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
1257 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
- 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
1190 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
1121 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
1386 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
- 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
1070 Views
Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
1229 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
1264 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
1189 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
1313 Views
The point is the same regardless
- 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
1211 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
1316 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
- 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
1229 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
- 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
1199 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
1207 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
1239 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
1250 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
1406 Views

