Active Users:1064 Time:10/08/2026 08:23:49 AM
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious Send a noteboard - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
Think it through guys. The most obvious examples we have of Talents that are anything BUT rare are Healing and Traveling. They both involve weaves and nearly every Channeler we've come across has at least some ability with them. The level of ability is what fluctuates from person to person. Greater Talent means greater ability to modulate the weave and thus create a wider array of effects than others. With Healing this generally means a woman can Heal more serious wounds, or like Samistu can lessen the shock to the patients body and perform a delicate healing with a fundamentaly blunt weave. On the flip side Egwene can't even close Gawyns wounds fully despite a massive strength difference. Same holds true for gateways. Androl can use a drop of the Power to make one large enough for a wagon, but Flinn pours exponentially more power into a smaller gateway.

This is not a case of the talent itself being rare, it illustrates that there are extremes with Talents. It also proves OP strength is not what determines the end effect of weave involving a Talent.

I wonder what would happen if Androl or Flinn were given angreal ... Would they be able to make larger gateways or would they simply be able to make more gateways of the same size ... Rand seems to think there is a limit to the size any individual can make, and he clearly reached his max size gateway with only a small portion of his strength and thus generates many at the same time. I suspect we would see multiple gateways of the same size rather than larger ones from Flinn, but possibly larger ones from Androl. At least until he reached the edge of his talent.


People who can Heal don't all have a Talent. Teslyn almost passes out when she Heals - and yet you would count her among your abundant Healers. No, a Healer is someone who can Heal miraculously with a fraction of her strength, like Nynaeve, Moiraine, Samitsu etc.

I don't agree that Elayne has a Travelling Talent just because she can Travel. The weave works for her, but you need to be exceptional to have a Talent. Egwene, and possibly Leane are the only women with cuendillar Talents. You can't count all those women who sit on a small piece of iron for an hour to make a piece of cuendillar.

I think a lot of our debate centers on our individual definitions of a Talent. Perhaps you think that anyone who plays the piano has Talent, but I personally think that most people can given practice and that true Talent lies only in the hands of exceptional musicians.
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3129 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1683 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1353 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1474 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1719 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1443 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1356 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1386 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1374 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1518 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1171 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1378 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1414 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1489 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1579 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1406 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 698 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1617 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1389 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1555 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1277 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1368 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1429 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1536 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1394 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1395 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1410 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1361 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1460 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1324 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1341 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1416 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1282 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1394 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1607 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1319 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1386 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1301 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1318 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1280 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1412 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1234 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1455 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1383 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1371 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1277 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1302 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1266 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1287 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1182 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1222 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1310 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1184 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1367 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1160 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1282 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1334 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1368 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1378 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1524 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1311 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1238 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 1109 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1340 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1275 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1318 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1341 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1291 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1298 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1236 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1272 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1145 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1337 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1232 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1271 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1241 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1289 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1255 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1303 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1310 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1758 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1303 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1301 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1259 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1294 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 572 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1228 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1306 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1375 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1396 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1233 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 881 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1410 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1279 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1260 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1407 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1301 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1320 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1288 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1330 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1356 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1166 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1127 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1235 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1297 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1280 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 804 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1265 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1445 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1258 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1361 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1261 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1267 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1445 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1195 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1735 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1221 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1394 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1381 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1238 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1529 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1291 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1446 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1311 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1189 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1355 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1393 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1322 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1449 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1343 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1396 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 681 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1447 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1355 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1377 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1341 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1349 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1431 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1304 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1178 Views

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