Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
I get what both you and Sidious are saying. I partially disagree ... Certainly there are the outliers with any Talent (or talent for that matter). But that doesn't change the fact that we've seen things in the text to support Traveling being a Talent. Just because there is a strength threshold doesn't change that, it simply creates more variation. Healing can be done by the very weak, but even some of the strongest struggle with it. Clearly it is a Talent with many more variations than we have so far seen than Traveling, but they seem to follow the same general rules. You need a certain level of Talent coupled with the necessary strength for that Talent level to make the weave work.
Would anyone even notice an "average" Talent level? Doubtful as the weave functions as expected ... Therefore an average AS can make a smallish gateway and a stronger woman a slightly larger one. No one thinks twice about such things. But now we are seeing a woman like Medani who can still make a good sized gateway while splitting her flows and carrying a chubby woman, so what 140lbs? lifting Verin in and of itself is no simple feat as we know lifting weights with air takes strength. and let's not forget Beonin's truly impressive one, meanwhile Flinn struggles with them. If Talent played no role here none of these examples should exist.
I agree that Talent and talent are used in some cases as the catch all ... Cuendillar and such could well be something like a flow affinity to Earth. But I don't agree that this applies to Traveling. We have too many examples to the contrary.
Would anyone even notice an "average" Talent level? Doubtful as the weave functions as expected ... Therefore an average AS can make a smallish gateway and a stronger woman a slightly larger one. No one thinks twice about such things. But now we are seeing a woman like Medani who can still make a good sized gateway while splitting her flows and carrying a chubby woman, so what 140lbs? lifting Verin in and of itself is no simple feat as we know lifting weights with air takes strength. and let's not forget Beonin's truly impressive one, meanwhile Flinn struggles with them. If Talent played no role here none of these examples should exist.
I agree that Talent and talent are used in some cases as the catch all ... Cuendillar and such could well be something like a flow affinity to Earth. But I don't agree that this applies to Traveling. We have too many examples to the contrary.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Problems with gateways
- 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
2979 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
- 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
699 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
- 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
1178 Views
It's been discussed before...
- 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
1542 Views
I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
1179 Views
Re: I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
1324 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
- 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
1319 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
- 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
1200 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
- 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
1489 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
- 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
1023 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
- 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
1225 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
1419 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
1461 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
1210 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
1391 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
- 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
1131 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
- 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
1243 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
- 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
1260 Views
No I think they're more about strength
- 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
1387 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
1259 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
1238 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
1264 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
1207 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
- 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
1305 Views
She did Heal him
- 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
1173 Views
Re-read some stuff
- 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
1255 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
1453 Views
But his thought processes are sound
- 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
1154 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
1230 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
1152 Views
Ummm...
- 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
1131 Views
Re: Ummm...
- 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
1255 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
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I think he did
- 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
1230 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
- 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
1138 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
- 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
1122 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
- 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
1150 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
- 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
1074 Views
Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
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Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
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Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
1176 Views
AND...
- 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
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Re: AND...
- 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
1211 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
1129 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
1198 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
- 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
1124 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
- 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
1213 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
1394 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
1162 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
- 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
929 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
- 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
1199 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
1165 Views
to the point on the Circle
- 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
1184 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
- 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
1136 Views
I've been thinking about this
- 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
1086 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
- 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
1117 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
- 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
988 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
- 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
1173 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
- 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
1087 Views
Highly doubtful...
- 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
1131 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
1091 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1130 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
- 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
1089 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
- 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
1146 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
- 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
1155 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
- 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1594 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
- 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
1236 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
- 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
1141 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
- 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
1188 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
- 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
1019 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
- 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
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Re: to the point on the Circle
- 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
1112 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
- 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
1148 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
- 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
504 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
- 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
1167 Views
There is so much evidence against this
- 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
1232 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
- 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
1236 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
1081 Views
He's referring to skimming
- 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
1269 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
- 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
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Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
1155 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
985 Views
Please explain Androl then
- 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
1170 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
- 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
1126 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1170 Views
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1170 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
985 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
- 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
1161 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
- 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
1137 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
- 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
1302 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
- 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
1085 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
- 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
725 Views
I agree with this PoV
- 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
1282 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
1102 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
- 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
1217 Views
I disagree
- 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
1126 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
- 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
1123 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
- 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
1080 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
1291 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1565 Views
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1565 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
1115 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
1079 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
1227 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
- 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
1168 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
1101 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
1361 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
- 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
1044 Views
Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
1201 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
1240 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
1166 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
1292 Views
The point is the same regardless
- 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
1189 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
1290 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
- 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
1206 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
- 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
1169 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
1166 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
1212 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
1218 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
1379 Views

