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I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
we have seen for many books now that far more than a "handful" of women are capable of making gateways. I'm pretty certain that in every book since this statement we've been introduced to many women who who have the strength. Far more than 12% of the overall female channeling population are capable of making the Weave ... given Bell Curve statements from RJ and where general AS strength lies I'd venture that at least 50% of women will end up being capable of the feat.

In addition, using AS strength distribution to make this determination is beyond faulty. RJ stated that 32.5% of women are too weak to be AS, and there are bound to be at least a "handful" of women with an outlier Talent such as Androl, doubt we'll see one, but mathematically they MUST exist.

Verin is far less than 50% of maximum Female strength, you should be able to easily deduce that Egwene is fundamentally wrong in assuming that "only a handful" of women had the strength to do it ... she clearly was only looking at a very small sample of mid-tier AS women when she made the statement. As the "handful" she refers to are at LEAST as strong as Verin, and she is not too far about the Average AS strength.

Even If you assume most AS cannot make the weave work, meaning more than 1/2 of AS are between Daigian and Verin in strength and do not possess a strong enough Talent to compensate for the lack, you still have a pretty large population of women above Verin who CAN make the weave. even if only 1/4 of the total Tower + new novices are above her it's more than "a handful" and that group will only grow over time.

In fact according to the Bell Curve there must be as many women out there between Verin and Morvrin/Carlinya/Beonin as there are women between Verin and Daigain **assuming Veirin is half way between Morvrin/Carlinya/Beonin and Daigian**

Which means there are a large number of women out there who can do this, even if they aren't AS ... WO, WF, and Damane are all more truly representative than AS in terms of strength distribution (at least for Sparkers). And don't forget that Cadsuane notes that in times past Romanda/Lelaine/Elaida's strength would have been far more common among AS along with many women between Cadsuane and Moiraine. In times of Tower strength a woman like Verin would have been "middling at best" and may have even been among what they considered "weak" ...

IMO Daigian and many women above her now would not have been considered to have the requisite strength to earn the AS Title in the glory days. Personally I'd bet anyone weaker than Adeleas/Vandene or perhaps even Merilille wouldn't have been considered strong enough. But as Tower prestige dropped and recruiting lagged, we now see many levels of women who maybe shouldn't be considered strong enough.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2753 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1288 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 968 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1112 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1183 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1100 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 971 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1016 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 991 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1136 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 775 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1004 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1031 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1091 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1191 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1003 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 523 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1186 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 987 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1161 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 891 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 994 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1021 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1165 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 979 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 991 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1028 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 999 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1064 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 963 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 975 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1015 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 843 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1011 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1207 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 902 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1012 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 921 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 960 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 922 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1037 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 870 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1079 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1014 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1008 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 929 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 880 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 865 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 901 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 781 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 844 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 941 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 824 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 962 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 803 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 910 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 941 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 885 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 961 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 992 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1137 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 930 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 864 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 716 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 972 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 906 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 912 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 963 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 900 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 905 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 874 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 913 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 796 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 969 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 865 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 898 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 860 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 881 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 875 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 917 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 905 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1368 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 905 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 911 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 889 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 917 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 416 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 877 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 911 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 987 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 995 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 871 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 714 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1047 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 889 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 899 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1006 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 928 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 961 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 905 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 906 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 956 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 801 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 780 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 878 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 940 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 918 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 623 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 891 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1021 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 863 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 990 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 922 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 901 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1036 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 825 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1290 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 856 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1012 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 952 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 870 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1089 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 929 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1038 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 909 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 806 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 920 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1041 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 957 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1010 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 941 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1001 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 502 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1054 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 994 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 988 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 943 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 913 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 989 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 881 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 774 Views

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