I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
seriously, no one is arguing that the increase gets greater with a larger circle, but the fact is we pretty much don't see ANY increase with the smaller circles. If a circle of 13 can give a effective increase of 100x even a circle of 3 should give an increase of 2x ... we've even seen some instances of a pretty intense increase for mixed circle ... even a circle of two in this instance seems to have a pretty significant increase over what Nynaeve expected.
KOD
Chapter Twenty
The Golden Crane
Suddenly fires bloomed below, six enveloping dead Trollocs in front of Malevin and Aisling, seven in front of Sandomere and Ayako, and she squinted against the blinding glare. It was like trying to look at thirteen noonday suns blazing in a cloudless sky. They were linked. She could tell from the way the flows of saidar moved, stiffly, as though they were being forced into place rather than guided. Or rather, the men were trying to force them. That never worked with the female half of the Power. It was pure Fire, and the blazes were ferocious, fiercer than she would have expected from Fire alone. But of course they would be using saidin as well, and who could say what they were adding from that murderous chaos?
Why wouldn't Damer's Circle in the Cleansing have had such an effect? In pure strength measures Flinn, Corele and Sarene would be pretty strong, at least as strong as one of the female Forsaken. Neither Sarene, nor Corele are weak AS and Flinn is one of the stronger Asha'man ... couple that with "precision bonus" and noting it's a mixed circle, which is clearly even more potent and they should be more than a match for Demandred, yet they barely equal him. Again, read Demandred's quote, it's clear this mixed circle has at best a small advantage against him as he is caught by surprise yet still managed to fend them off and escape.
During Rand's captivity 6 women could "barley" hold him, and if fewer than 6 had held Logain he could have broken the Shield ... the point here is that there are inconsistencies in the effect of a Circle. Despite the author's quote, the most potent effects we've seen are when a circle is used in conjunction with a Talent.
KOD
Chapter Twenty
The Golden Crane
Suddenly fires bloomed below, six enveloping dead Trollocs in front of Malevin and Aisling, seven in front of Sandomere and Ayako, and she squinted against the blinding glare. It was like trying to look at thirteen noonday suns blazing in a cloudless sky. They were linked. She could tell from the way the flows of saidar moved, stiffly, as though they were being forced into place rather than guided. Or rather, the men were trying to force them. That never worked with the female half of the Power. It was pure Fire, and the blazes were ferocious, fiercer than she would have expected from Fire alone. But of course they would be using saidin as well, and who could say what they were adding from that murderous chaos?
Why wouldn't Damer's Circle in the Cleansing have had such an effect? In pure strength measures Flinn, Corele and Sarene would be pretty strong, at least as strong as one of the female Forsaken. Neither Sarene, nor Corele are weak AS and Flinn is one of the stronger Asha'man ... couple that with "precision bonus" and noting it's a mixed circle, which is clearly even more potent and they should be more than a match for Demandred, yet they barely equal him. Again, read Demandred's quote, it's clear this mixed circle has at best a small advantage against him as he is caught by surprise yet still managed to fend them off and escape.
During Rand's captivity 6 women could "barley" hold him, and if fewer than 6 had held Logain he could have broken the Shield ... the point here is that there are inconsistencies in the effect of a Circle. Despite the author's quote, the most potent effects we've seen are when a circle is used in conjunction with a Talent.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 20/10/2012 at 05:07:32 PM
Problems with gateways
- 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
3029 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
- 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
720 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
- 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
1227 Views
It's been discussed before...
- 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
1589 Views
I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
1238 Views
Re: I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
1370 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
- 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
1357 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
- 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
1249 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
- 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
1569 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
- 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
1070 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
- 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
1271 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
1470 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
1512 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
1284 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
1436 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
- 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
1177 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
- 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
1278 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
- 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
1311 Views
No I think they're more about strength
- 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
1425 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
1301 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
1287 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
1303 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
1251 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
- 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
1346 Views
She did Heal him
- 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
1212 Views
Re-read some stuff
- 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
1303 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
1497 Views
But his thought processes are sound
- 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
1199 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
1272 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
1193 Views
Ummm...
- 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
1179 Views
Re: Ummm...
- 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
1307 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
1140 Views
I think he did
- 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
1277 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
- 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
1182 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
- 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
1164 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
- 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
1190 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
- 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
1115 Views
Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
1073 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
1105 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
1212 Views
AND...
- 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
1083 Views
Re: AND...
- 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
1253 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
1186 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
1237 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
- 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
1173 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
- 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
1263 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
1430 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
1206 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
- 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
1001 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
- 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
1237 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
1217 Views
to the point on the Circle
- 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
1240 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
- 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
1188 Views
I've been thinking about this
- 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
1137 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
- 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
1165 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
- 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
1042 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
- 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
1221 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
- 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
1137 Views
Highly doubtful...
- 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
1174 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
1137 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1176 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
- 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
1142 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
- 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
1193 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
- 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
1202 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
- 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1650 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
- 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
1291 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
- 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
1194 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
- 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
1231 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
- 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
1056 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
- 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
1157 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle
- 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
1158 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
- 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
1187 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
- 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
518 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
- 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
1206 Views
There is so much evidence against this
- 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
1274 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
- 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
1288 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
1128 Views
He's referring to skimming
- 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
1313 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
- 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
1171 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
1206 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1022 Views
Please explain Androl then
- 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
1214 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
- 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
1184 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1215 Views
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1215 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1022 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
- 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
1215 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
- 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
1174 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
- 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
1355 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
- 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
1129 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
- 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
743 Views
I agree with this PoV
- 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
1332 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
1145 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
- 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
1264 Views
I disagree
- 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
1161 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
- 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
1165 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
- 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
1125 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
1337 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1616 Views
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1616 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
1160 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
1122 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
1280 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
- 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
1209 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
1143 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
1419 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
- 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
1099 Views
Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
1247 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
1282 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
1211 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
1338 Views
The point is the same regardless
- 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
1234 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
1338 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
- 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
1246 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
- 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
1219 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
1234 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
1266 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
1280 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
1430 Views

