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It's been discussed before... DomA Send a noteboard - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
RJ had a solid background in Physics and no doubt made up strict rules and explanations for all this, but IRRC he never explained what they were.

As far as I remember, no perfect explananation for this was found except some suggested it's not a simple "physical hole" like a doorway that lets anything through... that when something goes through, it involves a manipulation or twisting of reality. So it looks like you're simply physically going from one side to the other, but in truth it's far more complex than this.

Those that can't go through Gateways support this reasoning: they are the Constructs, in other words men-made (with the OP) lifeforms, thus "artificial". Those we know can't use Gateways include Shadowspawn and Nym, so this isn't a Shadow thing (the gholam exception is very likely a Sanderson retcon because he had the gholam not die in TOM.. Jordan probably intended the gholam to die going through the gateway but he knew constructs couldn't survive this and didn't specify in a note to himself the gholam died, just that Mat would have it go through a gateway...) It seems to some that the Wheel is just unable to perform the "thread twisting" involved to let them pass through gateways. They just die. It might be true of vegetal constructs like Chora Trees as well.

My guess is that the Wheel doesn't let air pressure differences etc. occur. Each side of the Gateway remains separate, the hole is there but not really a physical hole, more like a threshold. When a being or object go through, there's some twisting of reality to make it pass through one point in the pattern to another, it's not simply walking through. Objects can go through gateways, the Seanchan sent projectiles through Elayne's. It could mean making a Gateway to the bottom of the Ocean wouldn't make all the water flood the other side either. Some habve suggested what looks like a simple hole is more like an invisible metaphysical "membrane" between two points in the Pattern, that you can pass through it without noticing that, that you can send an object through it, that animals can go through it but that the two points joined remain distinct and there's no real physical interraction from anything without sentience or will involved.. heat or cold, winds and such. IRRC, there was no snow that went through Aviendha's gateway into Rand's quarters in Rhuidean.


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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 3129 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1682 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1351 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1472 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1719 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1441 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1355 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1384 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1373 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1516 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1171 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1376 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1412 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1488 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1577 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1404 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 698 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1615 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1387 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1553 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1277 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1367 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1428 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1535 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1393 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1394 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1408 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1358 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1459 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1322 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1339 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1415 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1282 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1392 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1605 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1317 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1384 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1299 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1318 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1279 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1409 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1232 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1454 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1383 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1370 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1275 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1299 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1264 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1285 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1180 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1219 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1308 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1181 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1366 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 1159 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1281 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1332 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1365 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1377 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1522 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1310 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1236 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 1108 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1338 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1273 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1317 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1341 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1291 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1298 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1234 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1271 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 1144 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1336 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1231 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1270 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1240 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1289 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1253 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1301 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1310 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1757 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1302 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1300 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1258 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1293 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 572 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1226 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1304 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1373 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1396 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1233 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 881 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1409 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1279 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1260 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1404 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1300 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1319 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1286 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1327 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1356 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1165 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 1126 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1235 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1296 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1280 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 804 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1264 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1442 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1258 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1359 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1260 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1265 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1444 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1194 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1735 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1220 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1392 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1380 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1238 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1527 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1289 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1443 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1310 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1189 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1353 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1391 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1321 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1447 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1342 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1394 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 681 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1445 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1353 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1376 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1339 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1347 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1431 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1303 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1178 Views

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