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There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma Send a noteboard - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
in the power to Travel. Nowhere do we hear one woman judge another's strength based on a gateway. In fact for all we know they may have figured out that it's Talent strength that matters already. Note how many AS can Travel now. Enough that they are able to have a 24 hour duty manned by an AS ... That would take more than a handful of women to accomplish, and I doubt there are angreal floating around for such a menial task. But a woman like Verin, who had a secret angreal, may have raised a few eyebrows if she's suddenly making huge gateways in front of other AS.

Face it. You cannot accurately back into OP strength from the size of a gateway. Perhaps the characters have not all figured it out, but as a reader it should be obvious. And the women would trust their own senses rather than an OP effect that at least the AS would have enough OP experience to know better than to measure strength from. Elza for instance notes that Cadsuane must have an angreal because she was HOLDING more of the Power than Elza and Merise combined could. Not that Cadsuane made a powerful shield or created a gateway or any other effect. Elza can both feel Cadsuanes natural strength and judge how much of the Power Cadsuane was holding. She would also know certain things about most women from the Tower ... Things like how good a Healer she might be, or if she had a flow affinity or if she had the Foretelling.

Going a step further, AS should half expect Traveling ability to vary due to the FACT that it is a Talent. Sooner or later they will begin to explore the boundaries of the Talent and discover a handful of outliers who should not be strong enough to Travel, yet somehow can. Likely they will find a handful of women with plenty of strength for it that will struggle.


I do not have the quote cause I do not have the book at the . But the scene is Egwene as Amyrlin (and rediscoverer of female Traveling) commenting that some were only strong enough to open a gateway they could stick their arm through. Strength was definitely mention and associated with size by a female.

Also I am not one who believes that more power will allow you to open a bigger gateway. I think a single person who couldn't weave one on their own would probably only be able to open a pinpoint gateway with a angreal because they would lack the "Talent" as you put it to open a larger one(Affinity if I put it). Sorilea for example even with the most powerful angreal would still open a pinpoint. Whereas if you were already able to open one gateway you might be able to open more gateways, of the same size ,at least if you even have the ability to do multiple weaves.

There was some talk that sa'angreal actually duplicate the effect of a circle in addition to being more powerful so with a sa'angreal I might consider actual increases in the gateway sizes.

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Problems with gateways - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2979 Views
It's been discussed before... - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1542 Views
I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1179 Views
Re: I would agree with this - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1324 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1488 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1310 Views
There is - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1198 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1235 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1228 Views
Here's a neat idea - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1349 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 1023 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1225 Views
Absurd question... - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1246 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1325 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1419 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1250 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 629 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1460 Views
Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1210 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1389 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1131 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1241 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1260 Views
No I think they're more about strength - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1386 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1258 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1236 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1264 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1207 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1303 Views
She did Heal him - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1173 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1178 Views
Re-read some stuff - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1253 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1121 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1239 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1453 Views
But his thought processes are sound - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1152 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1230 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1152 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1190 Views
Ummm... - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1131 Views
Re: Ummm... - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1255 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1088 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1307 Views
I wasn't being very clear - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1228 Views
I think he did - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1230 Views
Maybe - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1142 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1138 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1120 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1138 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1122 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1150 Views
Exactly... - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 1033 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 1062 Views
Re: Exactly... - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1176 Views
AND... - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 1031 Views
Re: AND... - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1211 Views
Again THANK YOU! - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 995 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1128 Views
Re: AND... - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1197 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1212 Views
TY!!! - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1221 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1394 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1162 Views
Are you reading mine? - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1082 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 928 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1197 Views
THANK YOU!!! - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1122 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1164 Views
to the point on the Circle - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1183 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1136 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1148 Views
I've been thinking about this - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1086 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1115 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 986 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1172 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 1085 Views
Highly doubtful... - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1129 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1091 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1130 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1088 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1146 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1153 Views
the text is not inconsistent. - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1594 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1140 Views
Not so much - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1144 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1112 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1148 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 504 Views
Didn't I just say that? - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1073 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1165 Views
There is so much evidence against this - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1231 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1236 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1080 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 811 Views
He's referring to skimming - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1267 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1121 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1117 Views
We are close enough on this point - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1240 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1155 Views
Please explain Androl then - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1168 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1124 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1169 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1205 Views
No it's not - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 1019 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 984 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1084 Views
How do you know there's a difference? - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1155 Views
- 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1136 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 725 Views
Not really - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1110 Views
I agree with this PoV - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1281 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1100 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1216 Views
I disagree - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1124 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1121 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1289 Views
That has no relevance here - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 1036 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1565 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1079 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1227 Views
I noticed that... - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1238 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1101 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1360 Views
On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1146 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1266 Views
True - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1150 Views
Life skills and OP skills... - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 1042 Views
Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1199 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1240 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1166 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1290 Views
The point is the same regardless - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1189 Views
Here's an answer to your original question - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1247 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 613 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1289 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1206 Views
I know - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1234 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1192 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1166 Views
Trollocs have dreams - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1235 Views
XKCD is on the case! - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1132 Views
Re: Problems with gateways - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 1015 Views

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