There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
Onarishma Send a noteboard - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
in the power to Travel. Nowhere do we hear one woman judge another's strength based on a gateway. In fact for all we know they may have figured out that it's Talent strength that matters already. Note how many AS can Travel now. Enough that they are able to have a 24 hour duty manned by an AS ... That would take more than a handful of women to accomplish, and I doubt there are angreal floating around for such a menial task. But a woman like Verin, who had a secret angreal, may have raised a few eyebrows if she's suddenly making huge gateways in front of other AS.
Face it. You cannot accurately back into OP strength from the size of a gateway. Perhaps the characters have not all figured it out, but as a reader it should be obvious. And the women would trust their own senses rather than an OP effect that at least the AS would have enough OP experience to know better than to measure strength from. Elza for instance notes that Cadsuane must have an angreal because she was HOLDING more of the Power than Elza and Merise combined could. Not that Cadsuane made a powerful shield or created a gateway or any other effect. Elza can both feel Cadsuanes natural strength and judge how much of the Power Cadsuane was holding. She would also know certain things about most women from the Tower ... Things like how good a Healer she might be, or if she had a flow affinity or if she had the Foretelling.
Going a step further, AS should half expect Traveling ability to vary due to the FACT that it is a Talent. Sooner or later they will begin to explore the boundaries of the Talent and discover a handful of outliers who should not be strong enough to Travel, yet somehow can. Likely they will find a handful of women with plenty of strength for it that will struggle.
Face it. You cannot accurately back into OP strength from the size of a gateway. Perhaps the characters have not all figured it out, but as a reader it should be obvious. And the women would trust their own senses rather than an OP effect that at least the AS would have enough OP experience to know better than to measure strength from. Elza for instance notes that Cadsuane must have an angreal because she was HOLDING more of the Power than Elza and Merise combined could. Not that Cadsuane made a powerful shield or created a gateway or any other effect. Elza can both feel Cadsuanes natural strength and judge how much of the Power Cadsuane was holding. She would also know certain things about most women from the Tower ... Things like how good a Healer she might be, or if she had a flow affinity or if she had the Foretelling.
Going a step further, AS should half expect Traveling ability to vary due to the FACT that it is a Talent. Sooner or later they will begin to explore the boundaries of the Talent and discover a handful of outliers who should not be strong enough to Travel, yet somehow can. Likely they will find a handful of women with plenty of strength for it that will struggle.
I do not have the quote cause I do not have the book at the . But the scene is Egwene as Amyrlin (and rediscoverer of female Traveling) commenting that some were only strong enough to open a gateway they could stick their arm through. Strength was definitely mention and associated with size by a female.
Also I am not one who believes that more power will allow you to open a bigger gateway. I think a single person who couldn't weave one on their own would probably only be able to open a pinpoint gateway with a angreal because they would lack the "Talent" as you put it to open a larger one(Affinity if I put it). Sorilea for example even with the most powerful angreal would still open a pinpoint. Whereas if you were already able to open one gateway you might be able to open more gateways, of the same size ,at least if you even have the ability to do multiple weaves.
There was some talk that sa'angreal actually duplicate the effect of a circle in addition to being more powerful so with a sa'angreal I might consider actual increases in the gateway sizes.
Problems with gateways
- 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
3077 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
- 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
750 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
- 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
1280 Views
It's been discussed before...
- 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
1640 Views
I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
1299 Views
Re: I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
1423 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
- 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
1410 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
- 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
1303 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
- 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
1657 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
- 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
1125 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
- 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
1324 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
1531 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
1570 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
1338 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
1502 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
- 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
1230 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
- 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
1328 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
- 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
1374 Views
No I think they're more about strength
- 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
1477 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
1351 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
1340 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
1364 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
1306 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
- 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
1402 Views
She did Heal him
- 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
1275 Views
Re-read some stuff
- 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
1366 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
1558 Views
But his thought processes are sound
- 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
1263 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
1339 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
1239 Views
Ummm...
- 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
1237 Views
Re: Ummm...
- 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
1362 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
1190 Views
I think he did
- 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
1330 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
- 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
1243 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
- 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
1224 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
- 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
1245 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
- 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
1174 Views
Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
1135 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
1159 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
1265 Views
AND...
- 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
1134 Views
Re: AND...
- 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
1310 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
1240 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
1289 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
- 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
1228 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
- 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
1319 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
1476 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
1265 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
- 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
1060 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
- 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
1290 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
1271 Views
to the point on the Circle
- 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
1290 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
- 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
1242 Views
I've been thinking about this
- 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
1187 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
- 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
1228 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
- 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
1094 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
- 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
1282 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
- 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
1192 Views
Highly doubtful...
- 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
1222 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
1193 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1241 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
- 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
1205 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
- 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
1246 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
- 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
1264 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
- 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1712 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
- 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
1350 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
- 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
1256 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
- 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
1290 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
- 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
1110 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
- 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
1208 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle
- 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
1205 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
- 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
1242 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
- 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
547 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
- 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
1254 Views
There is so much evidence against this
- 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
1322 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
- 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
1344 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
1183 Views
He's referring to skimming
- 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
1367 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
- 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
1225 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
1253 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1082 Views
Please explain Androl then
- 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
1274 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
- 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
1244 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1276 Views
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1276 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1082 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
- 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
1276 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
- 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
1226 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
- 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
1419 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
- 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
1186 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
- 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
781 Views
I agree with this PoV
- 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
1397 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
1208 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
- 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
1318 Views
I disagree
- 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
1211 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
- 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
1219 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
- 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
1180 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
1394 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1681 Views
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1681 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
1217 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
1172 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
1337 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
- 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
1270 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
1193 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
1472 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
- 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
1144 Views
Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
1302 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
1346 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
1274 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
1397 Views
The point is the same regardless
- 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
1293 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
1396 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
- 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
1308 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
- 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
1269 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
1298 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
1314 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
1343 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
1500 Views

