Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM
Like Roberts you seem to be missing the point. It's not about obsession, it's about enjoying something despite it's flaws.
The point I'm making is that Jordan went very deep into building a world, rather than creating a skeleton of a world and leaving it as "good enough". Poor public education is a whole other topic.
I'm highly aware that the fan-site membership is representative of the fringe readers. However, I think you would be very surprised by the amount of data that can be taken from a sample of online readers who participate in forum discussion. The very fact that Jordan has so many dedicated fan-sites, is an indicator that a larger portion of his readers are more invested than someone like Roberts, who may be a technically better writer, but lacks a passionate fan base. That is a tale in and of itself. And for the record I have had many conversations with casual readers, most of whom can spout off amazing factoids about many WOT subjects. If you've spent 20 years reading a collection of novels you tend to retain quite a bit.
Then why continue to read it? Seems like a waste of energy and time to read something you don't enjoy. I can simply say that perhaps you need to get out of your head and let yourself enjoy the story. The more you bog yourself down with being irritated by poor syntax or literary devices you don't like the less you take away from the enjoyment of a rich storyline. Perhaps try listening to the audio books, I've recently downloaded a few of them (I've never listened to an audio book before mind you) and have found a rather different experience... some good, some not.
Generally speaking I find other Fantasy and most Sci-fi bland and oddly unimaginative. I tend to mostly read non-fiction.
I used to read a lot of Fantasy, and have a few favorites that I still pick up from time to time, but over the years I've gotten board with an increasingly formulaic category of books. Perhaps Jordan is somewhat responsible for that
I think one of the reasons I enjoy Jordan so much is I can see how much effort he put into building each character, each nation etc... I find most other Fantasy authors to be rather lazy in that regard. Perhaps it's my age, when I was in my 20s I enjoyed the adventure aspects of Fantasy and read much more widely in the genre, in my 30s I've gotten more into depth of character and have had little luck in Fantasy, as I'm creep up on my 40s I find that fiction in general holds little appeal to me, I'd rather read a historical text or a research study!
And that's a good thing?
' />
' /> The point I'm making is that Jordan went very deep into building a world, rather than creating a skeleton of a world and leaving it as "good enough". Poor public education is a whole other topic.
I'd be careful not to confuse regulars at fansites with casual readers who tend to make up the majority of the readership of any book/series. And to be honest, I seem to recall thinking that having characters that were pretty much stereotypes was not clever, but rather an annoying character development shortcut.
I'm highly aware that the fan-site membership is representative of the fringe readers. However, I think you would be very surprised by the amount of data that can be taken from a sample of online readers who participate in forum discussion. The very fact that Jordan has so many dedicated fan-sites, is an indicator that a larger portion of his readers are more invested than someone like Roberts, who may be a technically better writer, but lacks a passionate fan base. That is a tale in and of itself. And for the record I have had many conversations with casual readers, most of whom can spout off amazing factoids about many WOT subjects. If you've spent 20 years reading a collection of novels you tend to retain quite a bit.
Oh, I'll agree there's a "weight" to it, but I don't quite share your appreciation for it, unfortunately. It was an interesting tale at one point (or else I wouldn't bother commenting on it), but the weight of its narrative and structural problems lessened that enjoyment to the point that I haven't read any of the first nine novels in nearly 10 years and the last three only once each, with little desire for a re-read of any. What you highlight as positives end up being negatives for me. I guess the internet acronym of YMMV is applicable here.
Then why continue to read it? Seems like a waste of energy and time to read something you don't enjoy. I can simply say that perhaps you need to get out of your head and let yourself enjoy the story. The more you bog yourself down with being irritated by poor syntax or literary devices you don't like the less you take away from the enjoyment of a rich storyline. Perhaps try listening to the audio books, I've recently downloaded a few of them (I've never listened to an audio book before mind you) and have found a rather different experience... some good, some not.
Not to knock you for your reading preferences, but why don't you try other stories? Reading only one or a small handful of authors I would think would be very limiting on one's enjoyment of fiction.
Generally speaking I find other Fantasy and most Sci-fi bland and oddly unimaginative. I tend to mostly read non-fiction.
I used to read a lot of Fantasy, and have a few favorites that I still pick up from time to time, but over the years I've gotten board with an increasingly formulaic category of books. Perhaps Jordan is somewhat responsible for that

I think one of the reasons I enjoy Jordan so much is I can see how much effort he put into building each character, each nation etc... I find most other Fantasy authors to be rather lazy in that regard. Perhaps it's my age, when I was in my 20s I enjoyed the adventure aspects of Fantasy and read much more widely in the genre, in my 30s I've gotten more into depth of character and have had little luck in Fantasy, as I'm creep up on my 40s I find that fiction in general holds little appeal to me, I'd rather read a historical text or a research study!
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT.
- 19/03/2010 09:30:25 PM
13435 Views
Heh, While I agree with him about it being derivative, I still encourage people to read it.
- 20/03/2010 02:36:47 AM
2738 Views
My problem with the reviews:
- 20/03/2010 06:29:08 AM
3376 Views
Hear Hear !!!
.......................
=
........................ *NM*
- 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM
1616 Views
.......................
=
........................ *NM*
- 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM
1616 Views
well I agree and disagree
- 20/03/2010 06:51:29 AM
3057 Views
Re: well I agree and disagree
- 20/03/2010 02:12:43 PM
2617 Views
I'm amused by some of the responses
- 20/03/2010 07:20:03 PM
3042 Views
Are you suggesting that we are unqualified to disagree with him ?
- 20/03/2010 11:21:44 PM
2738 Views
No, I said rather that it's ridiculous to make such disparaging comments about his takes
- 20/03/2010 11:37:56 PM
2780 Views
I will reply to myself: What's the problem McFly , chicken ?
- 21/03/2010 12:29:36 AM
2585 Views
My sister called me chicken once
- 10/04/2010 01:18:31 AM
2660 Views
Re: I'm amused by some of the responses
- 23/03/2010 04:50:42 PM
2671 Views
And I'm even more amused by this response
- 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM
2608 Views
- 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM
2608 Views
On a completely unrelated note...
- 24/03/2010 06:15:25 AM
2534 Views
Ha!
- 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM
2513 Views
- 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM
2513 Views
My congratulations then
. *NM*
- 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM
2435 Views
. *NM*
- 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM
2435 Views
Wow, you guys have completely missed the point of the Wheel of Time series
- 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM
2648 Views
- 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM
2648 Views
There's a point to it?
- 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM
2631 Views
- 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM
2631 Views
Yes, RJ has explained it at least a few times and the main sequence of each book invokes his message *NM*
- 24/03/2010 02:09:01 AM
1556 Views
You're not taking me seriously now, are you?
- 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM
2546 Views
- 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM
2546 Views
I meant the reason why RJ wrote WoT in the first place
- 24/03/2010 06:39:47 AM
2541 Views
And which, arguably, could be viewed as being done in a hackneyed way
- 24/03/2010 07:15:55 AM
2602 Views
I thought the point was to write about a bunch of stuff happening?
- 09/04/2010 03:42:49 PM
2612 Views
pfft wth-ever
- 26/03/2010 12:35:53 AM
2422 Views
Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was
- 26/03/2010 12:28:19 PM
2682 Views
bla bla bla
- 29/03/2010 06:17:07 AM
2576 Views
Wow. That post was more entertaining than Mr. Roberts' review. Thank you
*NM*
- 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM
1733 Views
*NM*
- 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM
1733 Views
You must have low standards for entertainment
- 29/03/2010 08:54:03 AM
2530 Views
Re: You must have low standards for entertainment
- 29/03/2010 09:13:44 AM
2622 Views
I know you were, thus the
at the least of my comment
- 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM
2444 Views
at the least of my comment
- 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM
2444 Views
Unimpressed
- 29/03/2010 10:50:07 PM
2917 Views
Isn't that a bit uncharitable, Dom, considering how much you approved of what I did with CoT?
- 30/03/2010 12:03:48 AM
2924 Views
Re: Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was
- 29/03/2010 04:32:23 PM
2654 Views
Might want to re-read their Wikis again.
- 29/03/2010 07:07:11 PM
2466 Views
Awards
- 29/03/2010 07:42:03 PM
2422 Views
That link is out of date
- 29/03/2010 07:54:56 PM
2416 Views
Re: That link is out of date
- 29/03/2010 08:22:03 PM
2580 Views
This is a battle of win/lose?
- 29/03/2010 08:47:54 PM
2443 Views
Re: This is a battle of win/lose?
- 29/03/2010 09:03:07 PM
2494 Views
*considers employing the Chewbacca defense*
- 29/03/2010 09:28:06 PM
2496 Views
Re: *considers employing the Chewbacca defense*
- 29/03/2010 09:44:58 PM
2670 Views
The final point explains the "defense"
- 30/03/2010 12:24:56 AM
2422 Views
Re: The final point explains the "defense"
- 30/03/2010 01:33:04 PM
2344 Views
No, no, no
- 30/03/2010 06:38:41 PM
2414 Views
Re: No, no, no
- 30/03/2010 07:51:34 PM
2521 Views
Still continuing, huh?
- 31/03/2010 02:10:13 AM
2463 Views
Re: Still continuing, huh?
- 31/03/2010 03:56:57 PM
2443 Views
He's now reviewed the third book
- 26/03/2010 12:27:16 PM
2675 Views
Well, this time I must disagree with him
.
- 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM
2388 Views
.
- 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM
2388 Views
I don't think he was claiming that RJ was alone in doing that
- 29/03/2010 07:44:07 AM
2396 Views
Hah!
- 29/03/2010 06:07:28 PM
2399 Views
Well...
- 29/03/2010 06:52:10 PM
2323 Views
Differing perspectives, I guess.
- 29/03/2010 07:58:13 PM
2504 Views
I suppose
- 29/03/2010 08:50:43 PM
2423 Views
Re: I suppose
- 30/03/2010 12:18:30 AM
2557 Views
Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue?
- 30/03/2010 12:52:01 AM
2396 Views
Re: Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue?
- 30/03/2010 07:45:08 AM
2579 Views
But why only them?
- 30/03/2010 08:07:00 AM
2483 Views
The Shadow Rising review
- 02/04/2010 09:42:53 AM
2688 Views
I wonder if this borders on trolling
- 02/04/2010 02:29:58 PM
11220 Views
That would be a mistake
- 02/04/2010 09:16:25 PM
2689 Views
Re: That would be a mistake
- 02/04/2010 10:28:56 PM
2437 Views
I agree, Roberts is more and more coming across to me as just bitter
- 10/04/2010 01:24:52 AM
2542 Views
Little late to this one as well
- 10/04/2010 11:12:04 AM
2573 Views
Perhaps you should have led with this bit
- 10/04/2010 02:52:23 PM
2665 Views
I guess I just presumed that people would read the header to his blog
- 12/04/2010 03:54:10 AM
2478 Views
- 12/04/2010 03:54:10 AM
2478 Views
What review? I couldn't find one...
- 02/04/2010 08:00:45 PM
2649 Views
Re: What review? I couldn't find one...
- 02/04/2010 09:22:13 PM
2645 Views
See my comment below
- 02/04/2010 09:32:54 PM
2710 Views
Re: See my comment below
- 03/04/2010 09:31:22 AM
3045 Views
Sorry I'm late in responding, but I've been quite busy this week
- 07/04/2010 09:45:48 PM
2893 Views
Speaking of irritation
- 02/04/2010 10:50:04 PM
2595 Views
To be fair, even among the RaFOers there have been tons of posts that missed certain events
- 09/04/2010 03:47:30 PM
2515 Views
Commentary, then?
- 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM
2478 Views
- 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM
2478 Views
Here's the thing...
- 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM
2429 Views
Re: Here's the thing...
- 02/04/2010 10:31:56 PM
2278 Views
Re: Commentary, then?
- 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM
2383 Views
- 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM
2383 Views
for a man that bitterly complains about an author who is padding his work
- 08/04/2010 09:41:07 PM
2608 Views
1400 words is long-winded?
- 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM
2663 Views
- 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM
2663 Views
since you can sum up those 1400 words in about 25 yes that's longwinded
- 09/04/2010 01:36:16 PM
2526 Views
Except I didn't really sum it up, as I left out quite a bit
- 10/04/2010 11:15:42 AM
2557 Views
You are very defensive over this
- 10/04/2010 01:54:15 PM
2351 Views
Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else
- 12/04/2010 03:57:12 AM
2405 Views
Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts
- 07/04/2010 08:59:28 PM
2580 Views
I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes!
- 07/04/2010 09:50:39 PM
2475 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes!
- 08/04/2010 01:06:20 PM
2329 Views
Which Invisible Man?
- 09/04/2010 09:58:44 AM
2538 Views
He brings up some interesting points, if in an unnecessarily rude manner
- 08/04/2010 12:42:25 PM
2463 Views
To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
- 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM
2495 Views
- 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM
2495 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
- 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM
3021 Views
- 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM
3021 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
- 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM
2497 Views
- 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM
2497 Views
why are you so bothered by people being unimpressed with Roberts?
- 10/04/2010 02:19:08 PM
2494 Views
Not bothered as much as I am bemused by the ad hominems, to be honest
- 12/04/2010 04:11:12 AM
2794 Views
And in vol. 5, Roberts discovers the horrors of the circus
- 09/04/2010 09:57:03 AM
2470 Views
Basically he just states the "nothing happens"-argument...
- 09/04/2010 03:26:02 PM
2356 Views
Well, what was really resolved here?
- 10/04/2010 11:25:25 AM
2450 Views
Well...
- 12/04/2010 05:05:20 PM
2561 Views
So very little was resolved and much was set into motion, then?
- 12/04/2010 06:55:45 PM
2536 Views
Yes...
- 12/04/2010 10:51:08 PM
2253 Views
Ever read Umberto Eco's How To Travel with a Salmon?
- 12/04/2010 11:07:19 PM
2618 Views
I guess...
- 13/04/2010 10:03:03 AM
2600 Views
Sounds like you value prolixity for the sake of prolixity, to be honest
- 13/04/2010 04:41:07 PM
3715 Views
Nah...
- 13/04/2010 05:29:34 PM
2272 Views
He's read and enjoyed Proust, among others
- 13/04/2010 07:37:39 PM
2405 Views
Ah, well...
- 13/04/2010 09:45:45 PM
2321 Views
Dismissive, much?
- 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM
2514 Views
- 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM
2514 Views
About that bifurcation...
- 14/04/2010 02:02:15 AM
2479 Views
Sorry that I was busy yesterday and didn't have a chance to reply until now
- 15/04/2010 01:46:54 PM
2608 Views
I'm sorry, but he's totally right. "The Circus" made me put down this series for 5 YEARS.
- 09/04/2010 03:38:16 PM
2471 Views
Lord of Chaos commentary
- 16/04/2010 03:39:39 PM
2462 Views
No no. It was Lord of Heaven!
- 16/04/2010 05:51:11 PM
2338 Views
Yeah, I noticed that
- 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM
2274 Views
- 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM
2274 Views
I would love the see him review Goodkind...
- 16/04/2010 11:51:07 PM
2493 Views
I don't wish that on anyone who doesn't have copious amounts of alcohol
- 16/04/2010 11:57:41 PM
2406 Views
A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn?
- 23/04/2010 08:36:17 AM
2521 Views
Re: A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn?
- 29/04/2010 06:02:28 PM
2462 Views
I disagree
- 29/04/2010 09:34:49 PM
2291 Views
The Path of Daggers commentary
- 07/05/2010 10:39:03 AM
2609 Views
Winter's Heart
- 21/05/2010 12:46:14 PM
2595 Views
I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read
- 21/05/2010 04:49:31 PM
2443 Views
Re: I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read
- 25/05/2010 05:05:09 PM
2587 Views
WH was my least favorite novel in the series, and that is saying a lot.
- 28/05/2010 03:15:13 PM
2419 Views
I completely agree with his KoD post. Here is my favorite quote:
- 28/05/2010 03:08:31 PM
2763 Views
Roberts reflects back on WoT 1-11, with answers to questions asked of him
- 25/06/2010 12:51:29 PM
2575 Views
This guy should be burned at the stake
- 25/06/2010 03:22:34 PM
10058 Views
Are you done making a fool out of yourself, Mark?
- 26/06/2010 06:53:37 PM
2495 Views
Oh come on...
- 26/06/2010 09:06:01 PM
2558 Views
Well, the burning at the stake was a bit much...
- 26/06/2010 10:19:40 PM
2561 Views
Well, really! You brought the comment to his notice...
- 26/06/2010 11:34:08 PM
2568 Views
And your point is...?
- 27/06/2010 12:37:00 AM
2592 Views
Well...
- 27/06/2010 05:38:12 AM
2521 Views
Indeed... I think it's rather clear that Larry's goal has been to cause trouble
- 27/06/2010 10:57:36 AM
2698 Views
It's not about honour being beschmirched. It's about poor quality arguments. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 04:09:23 PM
1418 Views
One year later...
- 27/03/2011 03:40:29 AM
2397 Views
Re: One year later...
- 28/03/2011 05:03:32 PM
2644 Views
I see you subconsciously support critical takes.
- 28/03/2011 11:41:48 PM
2619 Views
No I conciously support telling you and him that you are pathetic, arrogent, & jelous. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 01:40:36 PM
1456 Views
Jealous?
- 30/03/2011 05:20:32 PM
2413 Views
You both are jelous of Jordan's tremendous succes.
- 30/03/2011 10:27:36 PM
2405 Views
Please learn how to spell the word "jealous" before tossing it about in the cavalier fashion you do
- 30/03/2011 10:54:36 PM
2440 Views
The fact that you teach is supposed to be a surprise?
- 31/03/2011 01:23:45 PM
2350 Views
After reading the standard-issue checklist of generic, tossabout pejoratives...
- 01/04/2011 03:06:18 PM
2510 Views
I agree, I didn't even notice it was an old post, definitely did not deserve to be revived. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 02:41:12 PM
1368 Views
Now I notice as well that this is a year old. You're very silly, Larry, very silly. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 04:13:38 PM
1491 Views
Yep!
- 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM
2331 Views
- 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM
2331 Views
He's not an "author", he's just a stupid troll, do not feed him *NM*
- 30/03/2011 02:39:19 PM
1384 Views
