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Here's the thing... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM

Well, Roberts is known for his snark in reviews, which I did note when I posted this thread originally :P

Can I claim RJ is known for his long winded stories, and that should be evident given the lengths of the books? :P

Snark is all very well, but when that all there is, calling his pieces reviews or commentaries seems silly to me. Its like submitting all those Goodkind threads on Westeros (I don't know why, but that comparison just keeps coming back to me) as a PhD thesis on The Sword of Truth!

And yes, some of his complaints are repetitive, but perhaps some of those are due to certain perceived "defects" cropping up throughout the series? The prose certainly never gets to the "sparkling" level at any point that I recall; it did feel a bit padded throughout, to be honest. That is something that could be raised as a point about each individual volume. Whether you agree with it or not is a different matter :P

Of course there are criticisms that will run common to all the books. If I were to review them, I'd have positive things to say that will repeat too. But the overall structure of review is more or less the same, with more or less the same set of complaints, with barely anything new being added by the reviewer. If the point being made is that all the books are padded, full of clumsy prose and completely lifted-off from various authors the reviewer has read, then why have 12 reviews? Wouldn't one review after all the books are done with be better?

It isn't like there aren't other elements he cannot comment about. Even if he wants to be exclusively negative about the books, there are issues he has barely raised which many other readers have complained about. What about a look at the gender imbalances portrayed in the books? That is pretty glaringly obvious by this book. Is Jordan's whole premise ridiculous? Or is it just shoddy execution?

What about the whole savior-as-destroyer aspect of Rand that becomes so obvious in this book? Far from Jordan's invention or anything, but certainly a departure from the Tolkein-spawn fantasies of the time.

And for someone who admittedly read it hurriedly, that's grounds for dismissing his point that there are indeed those similarities? It's little different than reviewers of various epic fantasy works noting the similarities (and possible derivations) between works. Yes, it is quite likely RJ wanted to have those similarities in there to serve a different purpose than what Roberts appears to concede, but there are quite a few of them, if I recall.

Come, this is a ridiculous argument. If you gave a student a copy of the Silmarillion to review, and he skimmed through it and all he could say is that the whole fall of Morgoth story was similar to Paradise Lost, you're not going to excuse him are you?

The Dune parallels are there. So are the parallels to the Jains, and a host of others. Almost certainly, some of these also played a part in Herbert's own portrayal of the Fremen. But Robert's chose the intellectually lazy way out and simply pointed out the easy parallel.

Why then is his review in any way worthy of reading or commenting upon? The author clearly has no time for the book, no time to read it, no time to think about it a little before commenting. What then makes it different from the host of Amazon reviews out there except the length and the admittedly better language? Are we to read this because it is a good review, or because a Cambridge professor and author with a penchant for snark decided he needed a book to deride?

I think it's more of a case where there is a more graphic description of warfare and suffering (and quasi-bondage scenes later in the series) than there is a deeper exploration of the coming-of-age issues that the characters have. The emotional/romance/love parts are perhaps a weak PG compared to the PG-13 to almost R-rated violence. That is something that is interesting, to say the least. But it's probably been discussed to death here over the years, I guess?

Not really, because, as FT pointed out, in the new era of "gritty" fantasy, the Wheel of Time is fairly tame when it comes to violence.
The few times there is sex on screen, the issue is skirted about, yes. While it is certainly worth exploring why Jordan felt he needed to do that, while showing a greater (but nowhere close to gratuitous) level of detail with the violence, that is not what Robert's talks about at all. He is evidently bored by the fight scenes, which are way below the lofty levels in which his nose resides. But some raunchy sex would do very well, thank you.

It seems to me you are almost projecting your own (reasonable and more authentic, because you actually read the book) critique of the book on the Robert's review.
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Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 19/03/2010 09:30:25 PM 13014 Views
A question for Larry - 19/03/2010 09:40:37 PM 3250 Views
Roberto BolaƱo - 19/03/2010 11:09:57 PM 3107 Views
I completely agree with his review. - 19/03/2010 11:11:17 PM 3213 Views
Ouch! Somebody pull that guy off RJ! *NM* - 20/03/2010 03:47:07 AM 1590 Views
Can't say that I really disagree. - 20/03/2010 05:19:26 AM 2527 Views
My problem with the reviews: - 20/03/2010 06:29:08 AM 3207 Views
Hear Hear !!! ....................... = ........................ *NM* - 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM 1510 Views
I agree - 20/03/2010 11:19:29 AM 2646 Views
You know what else I'm finding annoying? - 07/04/2010 07:29:37 AM 2560 Views
Fully Agree *NM* - 21/06/2010 12:41:05 AM 1386 Views
well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 06:51:29 AM 2925 Views
Re: well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 02:12:43 PM 2459 Views
I'd say just The Eye of the World - 20/03/2010 05:26:19 PM 2514 Views
Indeed - 21/03/2010 12:34:19 AM 2419 Views
These reviews are pathetic - 20/03/2010 12:52:22 PM 2453 Views
I'm amused by some of the responses - 20/03/2010 07:20:03 PM 2867 Views
+1 *NM* - 20/03/2010 10:48:14 PM 1723 Views
Are you suggesting that we are unqualified to disagree with him ? - 20/03/2010 11:21:44 PM 2591 Views
No, I said rather that it's ridiculous to make such disparaging comments about his takes - 20/03/2010 11:37:56 PM 2607 Views
I considered doing so - 21/03/2010 12:27:27 AM 2459 Views
I will reply to myself: What's the problem McFly , chicken ? - 21/03/2010 12:29:36 AM 2424 Views
My sister called me chicken once - 10/04/2010 01:18:31 AM 2469 Views
what's wrong runt... are you yellah? *NM* - 10/04/2010 10:40:16 AM 1471 Views
NICE! *NM* - 10/04/2010 02:19:44 PM 1331 Views
Re: I'm amused by some of the responses - 23/03/2010 04:50:42 PM 2520 Views
And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM 2433 Views
Re: And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 03:03:28 AM 2315 Views
Nah, TGS was the only serious review of the series I've done - 24/03/2010 04:31:28 AM 2396 Views
On a completely unrelated note... - 24/03/2010 06:15:25 AM 2319 Views
Ha! - 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM 2344 Views
My congratulations then . *NM* - 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM 2277 Views
You say it as if I had been condemned to hell! - 24/03/2010 07:13:45 AM 2158 Views
No. Well, maybe. - 24/03/2010 06:52:28 PM 2349 Views
! - 24/03/2010 06:54:34 PM 2349 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 22/03/2010 02:47:23 PM 2487 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 01:53:16 PM 2456 Views
Wow, you guys have completely missed the point of the Wheel of Time series - 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM 2489 Views
There's a point to it? - 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM 2467 Views
Yes, RJ has explained it at least a few times and the main sequence of each book invokes his message *NM* - 24/03/2010 02:09:01 AM 1476 Views
You're not taking me seriously now, are you? - 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM 2398 Views
I meant the reason why RJ wrote WoT in the first place - 24/03/2010 06:39:47 AM 2390 Views
I thought the point was to write about a bunch of stuff happening? - 09/04/2010 03:42:49 PM 2457 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 04:54:38 PM 2420 Views
pfft wth-ever - 26/03/2010 12:35:53 AM 2272 Views
Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 26/03/2010 12:28:19 PM 2531 Views
bla bla bla - 29/03/2010 06:17:07 AM 2416 Views
Usually, it's spelled "blah" - 29/03/2010 07:03:51 AM 2378 Views
Wow. That post was more entertaining than Mr. Roberts' review. Thank you *NM* - 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM 1648 Views
You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 08:54:03 AM 2342 Views
Re: You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 09:13:44 AM 2450 Views
I know you were, thus the at the least of my comment - 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM 2290 Views
Unimpressed - 29/03/2010 10:50:07 PM 2740 Views
Thank you - 30/03/2010 12:35:39 AM 2190 Views
*Standing ovation for DomA* - 30/03/2010 07:36:59 AM 2479 Views
Yes. Also, Roberts is a wanker. *NM* - 05/04/2010 09:28:57 PM 1479 Views
Re: Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 29/03/2010 04:32:23 PM 2468 Views
Might want to re-read their Wikis again. - 29/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 2309 Views
Awards - 29/03/2010 07:42:03 PM 2268 Views
That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 07:54:56 PM 2269 Views
Re: That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 08:22:03 PM 2399 Views
This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 08:47:54 PM 2310 Views
Re: This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 09:03:07 PM 2343 Views
*considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:28:06 PM 2332 Views
Re: *considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:44:58 PM 2541 Views
The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 12:24:56 AM 2235 Views
Re: The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 01:33:04 PM 2201 Views
No, no, no - 30/03/2010 06:38:41 PM 2264 Views
Re: No, no, no - 30/03/2010 07:51:34 PM 2376 Views
Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 02:10:13 AM 2331 Views
Re: Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 03:56:57 PM 2296 Views
Those were polls - 31/03/2010 08:46:07 PM 2309 Views
Re: Those were polls - 05/04/2010 03:22:13 PM 2250 Views
Does it gives him right to insult me? - 13/04/2011 02:10:32 PM 2291 Views
I wouldn't know. Was he speaking directly to you? - 14/04/2011 11:28:16 PM 2401 Views
He's now reviewed the third book - 26/03/2010 12:27:16 PM 2520 Views
Well, this time I must disagree with him . - 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM 2241 Views
I don't think he was claiming that RJ was alone in doing that - 29/03/2010 07:44:07 AM 2236 Views
Hah! - 29/03/2010 06:07:28 PM 2270 Views
Well... - 29/03/2010 06:52:10 PM 2172 Views
Differing perspectives, I guess. - 29/03/2010 07:58:13 PM 2358 Views
I suppose - 29/03/2010 08:50:43 PM 2268 Views
Re: I suppose - 30/03/2010 12:18:30 AM 2409 Views
True - 30/03/2010 12:23:28 AM 2252 Views
Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 12:52:01 AM 2236 Views
Re: Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 07:45:08 AM 2418 Views
But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:07:00 AM 2318 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 03:56:54 PM 2306 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:29:37 PM 2388 Views
I really liked a lot of the minor characters in The Great Hunt. - 30/03/2010 12:49:03 AM 2280 Views
I barely thought twice about those, to be honest - 30/03/2010 06:39:55 PM 2316 Views
I can't wait what he's going to try to do with TFoH and beyond - 28/03/2010 08:18:59 PM 2404 Views
Glad you enjoyed it - 29/03/2010 09:33:43 PM 2239 Views
The Shadow Rising review - 02/04/2010 09:42:53 AM 2499 Views
I wonder if this borders on trolling - 02/04/2010 02:29:58 PM 11060 Views
You want complaining? You got it... - 02/04/2010 06:38:09 PM 2398 Views
That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 09:16:25 PM 2519 Views
Re: That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 10:28:56 PM 2274 Views
I agree, Roberts is more and more coming across to me as just bitter - 10/04/2010 01:24:52 AM 2392 Views
Little late to this one as well - 10/04/2010 11:12:04 AM 2418 Views
Perhaps you should have led with this bit - 10/04/2010 02:52:23 PM 2509 Views
Re: I wonder if this borders on trolling - 04/04/2010 09:16:22 AM 2390 Views
What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 08:00:45 PM 2473 Views
Re: What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 09:22:13 PM 2475 Views
See my comment below - 02/04/2010 09:32:54 PM 2547 Views
Re: See my comment below - 03/04/2010 09:31:22 AM 2876 Views
Sorry I'm late in responding, but I've been quite busy this week - 07/04/2010 09:45:48 PM 2737 Views
Yes, I can probably agree with what you say here. - 08/04/2010 12:29:16 AM 2195 Views
- 08/04/2010 12:32:53 AM 2354 Views
I agree completely. *NM* - 02/04/2010 09:53:44 PM 1377 Views
Speaking of irritation - 02/04/2010 10:50:04 PM 2455 Views
Commentary, then? - 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM 2314 Views
Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM 2262 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:31:56 PM 2111 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 03/04/2010 01:34:05 AM 2171 Views
I somehow overlooked this last week, it seems - 10/04/2010 11:01:17 AM 2471 Views
Indeed - 02/04/2010 10:34:00 PM 2171 Views
Re: Commentary, then? - 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM 2231 Views
for a man that bitterly complains about an author who is padding his work - 08/04/2010 09:41:07 PM 2454 Views
1400 words is long-winded? - 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM 2485 Views
since you can sum up those 1400 words in about 25 yes that's longwinded - 09/04/2010 01:36:16 PM 2363 Views
Except I didn't really sum it up, as I left out quite a bit - 10/04/2010 11:15:42 AM 2402 Views
You are very defensive over this - 10/04/2010 01:54:15 PM 2204 Views
Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 03:57:12 AM 2251 Views
Re: Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 05:30:53 PM 2174 Views
You sound like a Goodkind webmaster from a couple of years ago - 12/04/2010 06:58:42 PM 2273 Views
You don't come across as a devil's advocate - 30/03/2011 03:07:32 PM 2267 Views
Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 07/04/2010 08:59:28 PM 2431 Views
I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 07/04/2010 09:50:39 PM 2305 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 08/04/2010 01:06:20 PM 2167 Views
Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 09:58:44 AM 2398 Views
Re: Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 01:26:42 PM 2362 Views
I have a very different take on that book - 10/04/2010 11:17:13 AM 2255 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 09/04/2010 01:45:44 PM 2294 Views
Hrmm... - 10/04/2010 11:19:01 AM 2138 Views
Re: Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 12/04/2010 05:37:36 PM 2369 Views
He brings up some interesting points, if in an unnecessarily rude manner - 08/04/2010 12:42:25 PM 2333 Views
To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM 2319 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM 2860 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM 2330 Views
why are you so bothered by people being unimpressed with Roberts? - 10/04/2010 02:19:08 PM 2340 Views
I don't understand it either - 11/04/2010 12:44:25 PM 2316 Views
right? - 11/04/2010 02:13:00 PM 2356 Views
Nah - 12/04/2010 04:13:44 AM 2162 Views
And in vol. 5, Roberts discovers the horrors of the circus - 09/04/2010 09:57:03 AM 2315 Views
5 reviews without saying more than "I hate the series" - 09/04/2010 01:31:13 PM 2162 Views
Basically he just states the "nothing happens"-argument... - 09/04/2010 03:26:02 PM 2202 Views
Well, what was really resolved here? - 10/04/2010 11:25:25 AM 2291 Views
Well... - 12/04/2010 05:05:20 PM 2417 Views
well exactly - 12/04/2010 05:33:11 PM 2439 Views
So very little was resolved and much was set into motion, then? - 12/04/2010 06:55:45 PM 2369 Views
Yes... - 12/04/2010 10:51:08 PM 2119 Views
Ever read Umberto Eco's How To Travel with a Salmon? - 12/04/2010 11:07:19 PM 2439 Views
I guess... - 13/04/2010 10:03:03 AM 2428 Views
Sounds like you value prolixity for the sake of prolixity, to be honest - 13/04/2010 04:41:07 PM 3557 Views
Nah... - 13/04/2010 05:29:34 PM 2120 Views
He's read and enjoyed Proust, among others - 13/04/2010 07:37:39 PM 2221 Views
Ah, well... - 13/04/2010 09:45:45 PM 2178 Views
Dismissive, much? - 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM 2332 Views
About that bifurcation... - 14/04/2010 02:02:15 AM 2316 Views
I'm rather moderate - 14/04/2010 10:11:30 AM 2212 Views
I'm just a liberation theologist at heart - 15/04/2010 01:51:16 PM 3113 Views
So, if you don't mind... - 13/04/2010 05:51:06 AM 2350 Views
That's fine with me - 13/04/2010 06:31:41 AM 2307 Views
I'm sorry, but he's totally right. "The Circus" made me put down this series for 5 YEARS. - 09/04/2010 03:38:16 PM 2333 Views
I didn't find it quite that bad, but... - 11/04/2010 08:27:52 AM 2318 Views
LoC represented a sharp drop in quality!!? - 19/05/2010 03:27:21 PM 2310 Views
And ignores everything else... - 09/04/2010 05:10:00 PM 2367 Views
Inchoatus went offline a couple of years ago - 10/04/2010 11:42:26 AM 3249 Views
This guy is going to get what he deserves... - 09/04/2010 10:26:14 PM 2282 Views
I'm waiting with bated breath for his CoT review *NM* - 10/04/2010 01:00:59 PM 1440 Views
Just wanted to point out that he is not reviewing the series. - 16/04/2010 04:04:49 PM 2225 Views
Lord of Chaos commentary - 16/04/2010 03:39:39 PM 2307 Views
He has reached - The Hump. - 16/04/2010 03:55:51 PM 2247 Views
Re: He has reached - The Hump. - 18/04/2010 08:08:59 AM 2685 Views
No no. It was Lord of Heaven! - 16/04/2010 05:51:11 PM 2196 Views
Yeah, I noticed that - 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM 2109 Views
I would love the see him review Goodkind... - 16/04/2010 11:51:07 PM 2344 Views
Finally re-read that post - 20/04/2010 09:35:45 PM 2300 Views
The magic items are mostly irrelevant... - 21/04/2010 03:37:36 AM 2281 Views
A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 23/04/2010 08:36:17 AM 2370 Views
Re: A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 29/04/2010 06:02:28 PM 2311 Views
I disagree - 29/04/2010 09:34:49 PM 2141 Views
I agree. - 29/04/2010 09:45:29 PM 2347 Views
Took me a moment to realize with whom you were agreeing - 29/04/2010 10:19:05 PM 2254 Views
Well, I did mention the necklines get overdone... - 06/05/2010 06:17:46 PM 2558 Views
Well, there's now also the tea to comment about - 07/05/2010 11:29:03 AM 2373 Views
A bit of a stumble this week - 30/04/2010 01:53:31 PM 2392 Views
The Path of Daggers commentary - 07/05/2010 10:39:03 AM 2459 Views
You'd think a Brit would like the tea... *NM* - 11/05/2010 04:05:42 PM 1318 Views
Maybe he's just a contrarian? - 11/05/2010 07:55:43 PM 2194 Views
Winter's Heart - 21/05/2010 12:46:14 PM 2428 Views
To be fair - 21/05/2010 01:56:49 PM 2532 Views
I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 21/05/2010 04:49:31 PM 2285 Views
Re: I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 25/05/2010 05:05:09 PM 2433 Views
WH was my least favorite novel in the series, and that is saying a lot. - 28/05/2010 03:15:13 PM 2287 Views
I completely agree with his KoD post. Here is my favorite quote: - 28/05/2010 03:08:31 PM 2609 Views
CoT, you mean (link to actual post included) - 28/05/2010 04:56:10 PM 2432 Views
Yep, I meant COT. *NM* - 28/05/2010 07:02:48 PM 1314 Views
Knife of Dreams - 18/06/2010 09:07:27 AM 2321 Views
Re: Knife of Dreams - 19/06/2010 05:49:38 AM 2391 Views
Agree... - 19/06/2010 05:08:44 PM 2336 Views
Roberts reflects back on WoT 1-11, with answers to questions asked of him - 25/06/2010 12:51:29 PM 2398 Views
This guy should be burned at the stake - 25/06/2010 03:22:34 PM 9864 Views
Are you done making a fool out of yourself, Mark? - 26/06/2010 06:53:37 PM 2336 Views
Oh come on... - 26/06/2010 09:06:01 PM 2407 Views
Well, the burning at the stake was a bit much... - 26/06/2010 10:19:40 PM 2410 Views
Well, really! You brought the comment to his notice... - 26/06/2010 11:34:08 PM 2403 Views
And your point is...? - 27/06/2010 12:37:00 AM 2409 Views
Well... - 27/06/2010 05:38:12 AM 2380 Views
Indeed... I think it's rather clear that Larry's goal has been to cause trouble - 27/06/2010 10:57:36 AM 2548 Views
There is no "borderline" about it. - 28/03/2011 05:17:15 PM 2233 Views
Ridiculous - 27/06/2010 06:38:46 AM 2304 Views
I like his FAQ and his overall musings on its' popularity. - 29/06/2010 06:35:10 PM 2309 Views
One year later... - 27/03/2011 03:40:29 AM 2231 Views
Re: One year later... - 28/03/2011 05:03:32 PM 2480 Views
I see you subconsciously support critical takes. - 28/03/2011 11:41:48 PM 2477 Views
No I conciously support telling you and him that you are pathetic, arrogent, & jelous. *NM* - 30/03/2011 01:40:36 PM 1385 Views
Jealous? - 30/03/2011 05:20:32 PM 2247 Views
I agree, I didn't even notice it was an old post, definitely did not deserve to be revived. *NM* - 30/03/2011 02:41:12 PM 1298 Views
Seconded. - 30/03/2011 04:04:36 PM 2204 Views
Now I notice as well that this is a year old. You're very silly, Larry, very silly. *NM* - 30/03/2011 04:13:38 PM 1424 Views
Yep! - 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM 2184 Views
Jeez Larry, you're starting to sound like a GRRM detractor. - 31/03/2011 03:01:38 PM 2374 Views
Nah, no detractor - 01/04/2011 03:00:41 PM 2361 Views
Could a thread be locked? - 31/03/2011 07:48:26 PM 2265 Views
Re: One year later... - 01/04/2011 02:55:02 AM 2618 Views
Yep - 01/04/2011 02:57:52 PM 2372 Views
He's not an "author", he's just a stupid troll, do not feed him *NM* - 30/03/2011 02:39:19 PM 1309 Views

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