Active Users:1178 Time:28/09/2026 04:46:05 PM
True Larry Send a noteboard - 30/03/2010 12:23:28 AM
But I think my main problem I had with the second and third books (like I do with a lot of multi-volume work) is that I had a better understanding of the setting, but that the characterizations were very underdeveloped at those points. That and it seemed to take too long to get to certain plot points (as if that ever really changed!).


One of Jordan's arguable "big mistakes" early on was that when he realized he wanted more breathing room to tell the beginning of the story in the style he was aiming for than any single volume would let him, he took the easy way out and rather than re thinking the whole beginning of his story (for instance by being more discriminating with the episodes he really needed vs. all the ideas he had) he divided his original book 1 into a kind of trilogy, obvioulsy adding "episodes" to get full novels out of his original three acts. It does work more or less in EOTW and TDR but it's largely failing in TGH which has all the defects of an overblown Act 2. The really big mistake, though, was to create three almost identical climaxes out of what was no doubt his original big confrontation with Ishamael that brought things back to the first prologue. And while he was at it, why not triple Egwene's captivity as well and why not triple the revelation of Rand as Dragon Reborn? And so instead of Egwene being captured in act 2, we got Egwene getting captured in act 2 thrice, and we got Rand losing Moiraine thrice and son on etc. That's all coherent enough with Jordan's concept of the Pattern repeating itself in great and small ways, but there are ideas like this that gain from staying in the background and not infect the storytelling itself too much....

Jordan ended up with not one "slower" introductory book that you'd expect in a multi-volume effort, but three. That's at least one too much. It's only with book 4 he started getting into the thick of things and turned to the more historical style he was aiming for since day 1 (so he's claimed anyway).


That's the problem with books 1,2,3 Roberts skirted around a lot and, not having done much research on the series's history, never quite nailed down. Jordan had too much to tell in a single book, but solved this out by splitting it in three books that he then padded - and it shows.


And that certainly would explained why I felt these books felt laborious to read, since it does repeat the basic narrative structure as you stated. Good points made, although like I said in my partial response to you above (I realized after the fact that I forgot to answer a few more paragraphs - oops! :P), it may be that in mostly approaching it without doing extensive reading on the background, Roberts was bound to miss a few things until he progresses further. Not too many readers want to know the entire story before reading the story, I've noticed ;)
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 19/03/2010 09:30:25 PM 13693 Views
A question for Larry - 19/03/2010 09:40:37 PM 3589 Views
Roberto Bolaño - 19/03/2010 11:09:57 PM 3558 Views
I completely agree with his review. - 19/03/2010 11:11:17 PM 3565 Views
Ouch! Somebody pull that guy off RJ! *NM* - 20/03/2010 03:47:07 AM 1780 Views
Can't say that I really disagree. - 20/03/2010 05:19:26 AM 2871 Views
My problem with the reviews: - 20/03/2010 06:29:08 AM 3599 Views
Hear Hear !!! ....................... = ........................ *NM* - 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM 1700 Views
I agree - 20/03/2010 11:19:29 AM 2971 Views
You know what else I'm finding annoying? - 07/04/2010 07:29:37 AM 2855 Views
Fully Agree *NM* - 21/06/2010 12:41:05 AM 1563 Views
well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 06:51:29 AM 3210 Views
Re: well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 02:12:43 PM 2762 Views
I'd say just The Eye of the World - 20/03/2010 05:26:19 PM 2897 Views
Indeed - 21/03/2010 12:34:19 AM 2752 Views
These reviews are pathetic - 20/03/2010 12:52:22 PM 2762 Views
I'm amused by some of the responses - 20/03/2010 07:20:03 PM 3223 Views
+1 *NM* - 20/03/2010 10:48:14 PM 1902 Views
Are you suggesting that we are unqualified to disagree with him ? - 20/03/2010 11:21:44 PM 2935 Views
No, I said rather that it's ridiculous to make such disparaging comments about his takes - 20/03/2010 11:37:56 PM 2948 Views
I considered doing so - 21/03/2010 12:27:27 AM 2759 Views
I will reply to myself: What's the problem McFly , chicken ? - 21/03/2010 12:29:36 AM 2804 Views
My sister called me chicken once - 10/04/2010 01:18:31 AM 2821 Views
what's wrong runt... are you yellah? *NM* - 10/04/2010 10:40:16 AM 1632 Views
NICE! *NM* - 10/04/2010 02:19:44 PM 1490 Views
Re: I'm amused by some of the responses - 23/03/2010 04:50:42 PM 2832 Views
And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM 2772 Views
Re: And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 03:03:28 AM 2656 Views
Nah, TGS was the only serious review of the series I've done - 24/03/2010 04:31:28 AM 2725 Views
On a completely unrelated note... - 24/03/2010 06:15:25 AM 2687 Views
Ha! - 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM 2654 Views
My congratulations then . *NM* - 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM 2580 Views
You say it as if I had been condemned to hell! - 24/03/2010 07:13:45 AM 2512 Views
No. Well, maybe. - 24/03/2010 06:52:28 PM 2664 Views
! - 24/03/2010 06:54:34 PM 2695 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 22/03/2010 02:47:23 PM 2850 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 01:53:16 PM 2753 Views
Wow, you guys have completely missed the point of the Wheel of Time series - 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM 2804 Views
There's a point to it? - 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM 2782 Views
Yes, RJ has explained it at least a few times and the main sequence of each book invokes his message *NM* - 24/03/2010 02:09:01 AM 1646 Views
You're not taking me seriously now, are you? - 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM 2709 Views
I meant the reason why RJ wrote WoT in the first place - 24/03/2010 06:39:47 AM 2702 Views
I thought the point was to write about a bunch of stuff happening? - 09/04/2010 03:42:49 PM 2797 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 04:54:38 PM 2756 Views
pfft wth-ever - 26/03/2010 12:35:53 AM 2581 Views
Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 26/03/2010 12:28:19 PM 2824 Views
bla bla bla - 29/03/2010 06:17:07 AM 2736 Views
Usually, it's spelled "blah" - 29/03/2010 07:03:51 AM 2677 Views
Wow. That post was more entertaining than Mr. Roberts' review. Thank you *NM* - 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM 1812 Views
You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 08:54:03 AM 2676 Views
Re: You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 09:13:44 AM 2766 Views
I know you were, thus the at the least of my comment - 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM 2589 Views
Unimpressed - 29/03/2010 10:50:07 PM 3095 Views
Thank you - 30/03/2010 12:35:39 AM 2514 Views
*Standing ovation for DomA* - 30/03/2010 07:36:59 AM 2788 Views
Yes. Also, Roberts is a wanker. *NM* - 05/04/2010 09:28:57 PM 1661 Views
Re: Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 29/03/2010 04:32:23 PM 2803 Views
Might want to re-read their Wikis again. - 29/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 2611 Views
Awards - 29/03/2010 07:42:03 PM 2580 Views
That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 07:54:56 PM 2559 Views
Re: That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 08:22:03 PM 2768 Views
This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 08:47:54 PM 2610 Views
Re: This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 09:03:07 PM 2626 Views
*considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:28:06 PM 2670 Views
Re: *considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:44:58 PM 2833 Views
The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 12:24:56 AM 2568 Views
Re: The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 01:33:04 PM 2511 Views
No, no, no - 30/03/2010 06:38:41 PM 2553 Views
Re: No, no, no - 30/03/2010 07:51:34 PM 2660 Views
Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 02:10:13 AM 2624 Views
Re: Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 03:56:57 PM 2619 Views
Those were polls - 31/03/2010 08:46:07 PM 2616 Views
Re: Those were polls - 05/04/2010 03:22:13 PM 2528 Views
Does it gives him right to insult me? - 13/04/2011 02:10:32 PM 2600 Views
I wouldn't know. Was he speaking directly to you? - 14/04/2011 11:28:16 PM 2700 Views
He's now reviewed the third book - 26/03/2010 12:27:16 PM 2834 Views
Well, this time I must disagree with him . - 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM 2544 Views
I don't think he was claiming that RJ was alone in doing that - 29/03/2010 07:44:07 AM 2563 Views
Hah! - 29/03/2010 06:07:28 PM 2547 Views
Well... - 29/03/2010 06:52:10 PM 2473 Views
Differing perspectives, I guess. - 29/03/2010 07:58:13 PM 2642 Views
I suppose - 29/03/2010 08:50:43 PM 2565 Views
Re: I suppose - 30/03/2010 12:18:30 AM 2735 Views
True - 30/03/2010 12:23:28 AM 2571 Views
Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 12:52:01 AM 2558 Views
Re: Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 07:45:08 AM 2763 Views
But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:07:00 AM 2636 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 03:56:54 PM 2646 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:29:37 PM 2734 Views
I really liked a lot of the minor characters in The Great Hunt. - 30/03/2010 12:49:03 AM 2576 Views
I barely thought twice about those, to be honest - 30/03/2010 06:39:55 PM 2617 Views
I can't wait what he's going to try to do with TFoH and beyond - 28/03/2010 08:18:59 PM 2700 Views
Glad you enjoyed it - 29/03/2010 09:33:43 PM 2535 Views
The Shadow Rising review - 02/04/2010 09:42:53 AM 2865 Views
I wonder if this borders on trolling - 02/04/2010 02:29:58 PM 11374 Views
You want complaining? You got it... - 02/04/2010 06:38:09 PM 2686 Views
That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 09:16:25 PM 2846 Views
Re: That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 10:28:56 PM 2588 Views
I agree, Roberts is more and more coming across to me as just bitter - 10/04/2010 01:24:52 AM 2693 Views
Little late to this one as well - 10/04/2010 11:12:04 AM 2751 Views
Perhaps you should have led with this bit - 10/04/2010 02:52:23 PM 2815 Views
Re: I wonder if this borders on trolling - 04/04/2010 09:16:22 AM 2696 Views
What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 08:00:45 PM 2792 Views
Re: What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 09:22:13 PM 2798 Views
See my comment below - 02/04/2010 09:32:54 PM 2863 Views
Re: See my comment below - 03/04/2010 09:31:22 AM 3203 Views
Sorry I'm late in responding, but I've been quite busy this week - 07/04/2010 09:45:48 PM 3049 Views
Yes, I can probably agree with what you say here. - 08/04/2010 12:29:16 AM 2500 Views
- 08/04/2010 12:32:53 AM 2642 Views
I agree completely. *NM* - 02/04/2010 09:53:44 PM 1534 Views
Speaking of irritation - 02/04/2010 10:50:04 PM 2758 Views
Commentary, then? - 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM 2651 Views
Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM 2586 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:31:56 PM 2455 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 03/04/2010 01:34:05 AM 2474 Views
I somehow overlooked this last week, it seems - 10/04/2010 11:01:17 AM 2813 Views
Indeed - 02/04/2010 10:34:00 PM 2478 Views
Re: Commentary, then? - 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM 2530 Views
for a man that bitterly complains about an author who is padding his work - 08/04/2010 09:41:07 PM 2765 Views
1400 words is long-winded? - 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM 2811 Views
since you can sum up those 1400 words in about 25 yes that's longwinded - 09/04/2010 01:36:16 PM 2689 Views
Except I didn't really sum it up, as I left out quite a bit - 10/04/2010 11:15:42 AM 2712 Views
You are very defensive over this - 10/04/2010 01:54:15 PM 2506 Views
Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 03:57:12 AM 2568 Views
Re: Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 05:30:53 PM 2501 Views
You sound like a Goodkind webmaster from a couple of years ago - 12/04/2010 06:58:42 PM 2587 Views
You don't come across as a devil's advocate - 30/03/2011 03:07:32 PM 2611 Views
Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 07/04/2010 08:59:28 PM 2734 Views
I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 07/04/2010 09:50:39 PM 2616 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 08/04/2010 01:06:20 PM 2523 Views
Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 09:58:44 AM 2687 Views
Re: Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 01:26:42 PM 2724 Views
I have a very different take on that book - 10/04/2010 11:17:13 AM 2564 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 09/04/2010 01:45:44 PM 2630 Views
Hrmm... - 10/04/2010 11:19:01 AM 2450 Views
Re: Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 12/04/2010 05:37:36 PM 2685 Views
He brings up some interesting points, if in an unnecessarily rude manner - 08/04/2010 12:42:25 PM 2616 Views
To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM 2633 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM 3177 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM 2654 Views
why are you so bothered by people being unimpressed with Roberts? - 10/04/2010 02:19:08 PM 2660 Views
I don't understand it either - 11/04/2010 12:44:25 PM 2642 Views
right? - 11/04/2010 02:13:00 PM 2654 Views
Nah - 12/04/2010 04:13:44 AM 2473 Views
And in vol. 5, Roberts discovers the horrors of the circus - 09/04/2010 09:57:03 AM 2631 Views
5 reviews without saying more than "I hate the series" - 09/04/2010 01:31:13 PM 2502 Views
Basically he just states the "nothing happens"-argument... - 09/04/2010 03:26:02 PM 2530 Views
Well, what was really resolved here? - 10/04/2010 11:25:25 AM 2601 Views
Well... - 12/04/2010 05:05:20 PM 2713 Views
well exactly - 12/04/2010 05:33:11 PM 2709 Views
So very little was resolved and much was set into motion, then? - 12/04/2010 06:55:45 PM 2674 Views
Yes... - 12/04/2010 10:51:08 PM 2423 Views
Ever read Umberto Eco's How To Travel with a Salmon? - 12/04/2010 11:07:19 PM 2769 Views
I guess... - 13/04/2010 10:03:03 AM 2751 Views
Sounds like you value prolixity for the sake of prolixity, to be honest - 13/04/2010 04:41:07 PM 3871 Views
Nah... - 13/04/2010 05:29:34 PM 2416 Views
He's read and enjoyed Proust, among others - 13/04/2010 07:37:39 PM 2578 Views
Ah, well... - 13/04/2010 09:45:45 PM 2465 Views
Dismissive, much? - 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM 2678 Views
About that bifurcation... - 14/04/2010 02:02:15 AM 2642 Views
I'm rather moderate - 14/04/2010 10:11:30 AM 2585 Views
I'm just a liberation theologist at heart - 15/04/2010 01:51:16 PM 3436 Views
So, if you don't mind... - 13/04/2010 05:51:06 AM 2660 Views
That's fine with me - 13/04/2010 06:31:41 AM 2613 Views
I'm sorry, but he's totally right. "The Circus" made me put down this series for 5 YEARS. - 09/04/2010 03:38:16 PM 2630 Views
I didn't find it quite that bad, but... - 11/04/2010 08:27:52 AM 2631 Views
LoC represented a sharp drop in quality!!? - 19/05/2010 03:27:21 PM 2592 Views
And ignores everything else... - 09/04/2010 05:10:00 PM 2721 Views
Inchoatus went offline a couple of years ago - 10/04/2010 11:42:26 AM 3562 Views
This guy is going to get what he deserves... - 09/04/2010 10:26:14 PM 2590 Views
I'm waiting with bated breath for his CoT review *NM* - 10/04/2010 01:00:59 PM 1625 Views
Just wanted to point out that he is not reviewing the series. - 16/04/2010 04:04:49 PM 2514 Views
Lord of Chaos commentary - 16/04/2010 03:39:39 PM 2602 Views
He has reached - The Hump. - 16/04/2010 03:55:51 PM 2547 Views
Re: He has reached - The Hump. - 18/04/2010 08:08:59 AM 2975 Views
No no. It was Lord of Heaven! - 16/04/2010 05:51:11 PM 2491 Views
Yeah, I noticed that - 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM 2410 Views
I would love the see him review Goodkind... - 16/04/2010 11:51:07 PM 2625 Views
Finally re-read that post - 20/04/2010 09:35:45 PM 2612 Views
The magic items are mostly irrelevant... - 21/04/2010 03:37:36 AM 2581 Views
A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 23/04/2010 08:36:17 AM 2681 Views
Re: A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 29/04/2010 06:02:28 PM 2599 Views
I disagree - 29/04/2010 09:34:49 PM 2424 Views
I agree. - 29/04/2010 09:45:29 PM 2638 Views
Took me a moment to realize with whom you were agreeing - 29/04/2010 10:19:05 PM 2573 Views
Well, I did mention the necklines get overdone... - 06/05/2010 06:17:46 PM 2884 Views
Well, there's now also the tea to comment about - 07/05/2010 11:29:03 AM 2676 Views
A bit of a stumble this week - 30/04/2010 01:53:31 PM 2691 Views
The Path of Daggers commentary - 07/05/2010 10:39:03 AM 2749 Views
You'd think a Brit would like the tea... *NM* - 11/05/2010 04:05:42 PM 1472 Views
Maybe he's just a contrarian? - 11/05/2010 07:55:43 PM 2493 Views
Winter's Heart - 21/05/2010 12:46:14 PM 2765 Views
To be fair - 21/05/2010 01:56:49 PM 2853 Views
I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 21/05/2010 04:49:31 PM 2597 Views
Re: I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 25/05/2010 05:05:09 PM 2744 Views
WH was my least favorite novel in the series, and that is saying a lot. - 28/05/2010 03:15:13 PM 2578 Views
I completely agree with his KoD post. Here is my favorite quote: - 28/05/2010 03:08:31 PM 2911 Views
CoT, you mean (link to actual post included) - 28/05/2010 04:56:10 PM 2735 Views
Yep, I meant COT. *NM* - 28/05/2010 07:02:48 PM 1469 Views
Knife of Dreams - 18/06/2010 09:07:27 AM 2633 Views
Re: Knife of Dreams - 19/06/2010 05:49:38 AM 2711 Views
Agree... - 19/06/2010 05:08:44 PM 2626 Views
Roberts reflects back on WoT 1-11, with answers to questions asked of him - 25/06/2010 12:51:29 PM 2724 Views
This guy should be burned at the stake - 25/06/2010 03:22:34 PM 10212 Views
Are you done making a fool out of yourself, Mark? - 26/06/2010 06:53:37 PM 2660 Views
Oh come on... - 26/06/2010 09:06:01 PM 2690 Views
Well, the burning at the stake was a bit much... - 26/06/2010 10:19:40 PM 2707 Views
Well, really! You brought the comment to his notice... - 26/06/2010 11:34:08 PM 2719 Views
And your point is...? - 27/06/2010 12:37:00 AM 2736 Views
Well... - 27/06/2010 05:38:12 AM 2670 Views
Indeed... I think it's rather clear that Larry's goal has been to cause trouble - 27/06/2010 10:57:36 AM 2843 Views
There is no "borderline" about it. - 28/03/2011 05:17:15 PM 2513 Views
Ridiculous - 27/06/2010 06:38:46 AM 2567 Views
I like his FAQ and his overall musings on its' popularity. - 29/06/2010 06:35:10 PM 2593 Views
One year later... - 27/03/2011 03:40:29 AM 2525 Views
Re: One year later... - 28/03/2011 05:03:32 PM 2803 Views
I see you subconsciously support critical takes. - 28/03/2011 11:41:48 PM 2760 Views
No I conciously support telling you and him that you are pathetic, arrogent, & jelous. *NM* - 30/03/2011 01:40:36 PM 1550 Views
Jealous? - 30/03/2011 05:20:32 PM 2564 Views
I agree, I didn't even notice it was an old post, definitely did not deserve to be revived. *NM* - 30/03/2011 02:41:12 PM 1454 Views
Seconded. - 30/03/2011 04:04:36 PM 2508 Views
Now I notice as well that this is a year old. You're very silly, Larry, very silly. *NM* - 30/03/2011 04:13:38 PM 1579 Views
Yep! - 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM 2479 Views
Jeez Larry, you're starting to sound like a GRRM detractor. - 31/03/2011 03:01:38 PM 2678 Views
Nah, no detractor - 01/04/2011 03:00:41 PM 2671 Views
Could a thread be locked? - 31/03/2011 07:48:26 PM 2565 Views
Re: One year later... - 01/04/2011 02:55:02 AM 2984 Views
Yep - 01/04/2011 02:57:52 PM 2693 Views
He's not an "author", he's just a stupid troll, do not feed him *NM* - 30/03/2011 02:39:19 PM 1478 Views

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