Active Users:829 Time:11/02/2026 11:52:14 AM
Here's the thing... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM

Well, Roberts is known for his snark in reviews, which I did note when I posted this thread originally :P

Can I claim RJ is known for his long winded stories, and that should be evident given the lengths of the books? :P

Snark is all very well, but when that all there is, calling his pieces reviews or commentaries seems silly to me. Its like submitting all those Goodkind threads on Westeros (I don't know why, but that comparison just keeps coming back to me) as a PhD thesis on The Sword of Truth!

And yes, some of his complaints are repetitive, but perhaps some of those are due to certain perceived "defects" cropping up throughout the series? The prose certainly never gets to the "sparkling" level at any point that I recall; it did feel a bit padded throughout, to be honest. That is something that could be raised as a point about each individual volume. Whether you agree with it or not is a different matter :P

Of course there are criticisms that will run common to all the books. If I were to review them, I'd have positive things to say that will repeat too. But the overall structure of review is more or less the same, with more or less the same set of complaints, with barely anything new being added by the reviewer. If the point being made is that all the books are padded, full of clumsy prose and completely lifted-off from various authors the reviewer has read, then why have 12 reviews? Wouldn't one review after all the books are done with be better?

It isn't like there aren't other elements he cannot comment about. Even if he wants to be exclusively negative about the books, there are issues he has barely raised which many other readers have complained about. What about a look at the gender imbalances portrayed in the books? That is pretty glaringly obvious by this book. Is Jordan's whole premise ridiculous? Or is it just shoddy execution?

What about the whole savior-as-destroyer aspect of Rand that becomes so obvious in this book? Far from Jordan's invention or anything, but certainly a departure from the Tolkein-spawn fantasies of the time.

And for someone who admittedly read it hurriedly, that's grounds for dismissing his point that there are indeed those similarities? It's little different than reviewers of various epic fantasy works noting the similarities (and possible derivations) between works. Yes, it is quite likely RJ wanted to have those similarities in there to serve a different purpose than what Roberts appears to concede, but there are quite a few of them, if I recall.

Come, this is a ridiculous argument. If you gave a student a copy of the Silmarillion to review, and he skimmed through it and all he could say is that the whole fall of Morgoth story was similar to Paradise Lost, you're not going to excuse him are you?

The Dune parallels are there. So are the parallels to the Jains, and a host of others. Almost certainly, some of these also played a part in Herbert's own portrayal of the Fremen. But Robert's chose the intellectually lazy way out and simply pointed out the easy parallel.

Why then is his review in any way worthy of reading or commenting upon? The author clearly has no time for the book, no time to read it, no time to think about it a little before commenting. What then makes it different from the host of Amazon reviews out there except the length and the admittedly better language? Are we to read this because it is a good review, or because a Cambridge professor and author with a penchant for snark decided he needed a book to deride?

I think it's more of a case where there is a more graphic description of warfare and suffering (and quasi-bondage scenes later in the series) than there is a deeper exploration of the coming-of-age issues that the characters have. The emotional/romance/love parts are perhaps a weak PG compared to the PG-13 to almost R-rated violence. That is something that is interesting, to say the least. But it's probably been discussed to death here over the years, I guess?

Not really, because, as FT pointed out, in the new era of "gritty" fantasy, the Wheel of Time is fairly tame when it comes to violence.
The few times there is sex on screen, the issue is skirted about, yes. While it is certainly worth exploring why Jordan felt he needed to do that, while showing a greater (but nowhere close to gratuitous) level of detail with the violence, that is not what Robert's talks about at all. He is evidently bored by the fight scenes, which are way below the lofty levels in which his nose resides. But some raunchy sex would do very well, thank you.

It seems to me you are almost projecting your own (reasonable and more authentic, because you actually read the book) critique of the book on the Robert's review.
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Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 19/03/2010 09:30:25 PM 13393 Views
A question for Larry - 19/03/2010 09:40:37 PM 3399 Views
Roberto BolaƱo - 19/03/2010 11:09:57 PM 3336 Views
I completely agree with his review. - 19/03/2010 11:11:17 PM 3359 Views
Ouch! Somebody pull that guy off RJ! *NM* - 20/03/2010 03:47:07 AM 1671 Views
Can't say that I really disagree. - 20/03/2010 05:19:26 AM 2669 Views
My problem with the reviews: - 20/03/2010 06:29:08 AM 3353 Views
Hear Hear !!! ....................... = ........................ *NM* - 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM 1603 Views
I agree - 20/03/2010 11:19:29 AM 2801 Views
You know what else I'm finding annoying? - 07/04/2010 07:29:37 AM 2686 Views
Fully Agree *NM* - 21/06/2010 12:41:05 AM 1461 Views
well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 06:51:29 AM 3036 Views
Re: well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 02:12:43 PM 2600 Views
I'd say just The Eye of the World - 20/03/2010 05:26:19 PM 2712 Views
Indeed - 21/03/2010 12:34:19 AM 2561 Views
These reviews are pathetic - 20/03/2010 12:52:22 PM 2573 Views
I'm amused by some of the responses - 20/03/2010 07:20:03 PM 3019 Views
+1 *NM* - 20/03/2010 10:48:14 PM 1803 Views
Are you suggesting that we are unqualified to disagree with him ? - 20/03/2010 11:21:44 PM 2714 Views
No, I said rather that it's ridiculous to make such disparaging comments about his takes - 20/03/2010 11:37:56 PM 2755 Views
I considered doing so - 21/03/2010 12:27:27 AM 2586 Views
I will reply to myself: What's the problem McFly , chicken ? - 21/03/2010 12:29:36 AM 2550 Views
My sister called me chicken once - 10/04/2010 01:18:31 AM 2620 Views
what's wrong runt... are you yellah? *NM* - 10/04/2010 10:40:16 AM 1542 Views
NICE! *NM* - 10/04/2010 02:19:44 PM 1396 Views
Re: I'm amused by some of the responses - 23/03/2010 04:50:42 PM 2649 Views
And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM 2583 Views
Re: And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 03:03:28 AM 2461 Views
Nah, TGS was the only serious review of the series I've done - 24/03/2010 04:31:28 AM 2536 Views
On a completely unrelated note... - 24/03/2010 06:15:25 AM 2510 Views
Ha! - 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM 2494 Views
My congratulations then . *NM* - 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM 2413 Views
You say it as if I had been condemned to hell! - 24/03/2010 07:13:45 AM 2329 Views
No. Well, maybe. - 24/03/2010 06:52:28 PM 2484 Views
! - 24/03/2010 06:54:34 PM 2512 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 22/03/2010 02:47:23 PM 2661 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 01:53:16 PM 2582 Views
Wow, you guys have completely missed the point of the Wheel of Time series - 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM 2629 Views
There's a point to it? - 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM 2612 Views
Yes, RJ has explained it at least a few times and the main sequence of each book invokes his message *NM* - 24/03/2010 02:09:01 AM 1548 Views
You're not taking me seriously now, are you? - 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM 2520 Views
I meant the reason why RJ wrote WoT in the first place - 24/03/2010 06:39:47 AM 2527 Views
I thought the point was to write about a bunch of stuff happening? - 09/04/2010 03:42:49 PM 2578 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 04:54:38 PM 2570 Views
pfft wth-ever - 26/03/2010 12:35:53 AM 2390 Views
Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 26/03/2010 12:28:19 PM 2655 Views
bla bla bla - 29/03/2010 06:17:07 AM 2557 Views
Usually, it's spelled "blah" - 29/03/2010 07:03:51 AM 2506 Views
Wow. That post was more entertaining than Mr. Roberts' review. Thank you *NM* - 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM 1720 Views
You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 08:54:03 AM 2505 Views
Re: You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 09:13:44 AM 2604 Views
I know you were, thus the at the least of my comment - 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM 2420 Views
Unimpressed - 29/03/2010 10:50:07 PM 2900 Views
Thank you - 30/03/2010 12:35:39 AM 2341 Views
*Standing ovation for DomA* - 30/03/2010 07:36:59 AM 2613 Views
Yes. Also, Roberts is a wanker. *NM* - 05/04/2010 09:28:57 PM 1543 Views
Re: Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 29/03/2010 04:32:23 PM 2626 Views
Might want to re-read their Wikis again. - 29/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 2447 Views
Awards - 29/03/2010 07:42:03 PM 2401 Views
That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 07:54:56 PM 2388 Views
Re: That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 08:22:03 PM 2556 Views
This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 08:47:54 PM 2424 Views
Re: This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 09:03:07 PM 2474 Views
*considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:28:06 PM 2470 Views
Re: *considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:44:58 PM 2644 Views
The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 12:24:56 AM 2393 Views
Re: The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 01:33:04 PM 2324 Views
No, no, no - 30/03/2010 06:38:41 PM 2393 Views
Re: No, no, no - 30/03/2010 07:51:34 PM 2501 Views
Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 02:10:13 AM 2444 Views
Re: Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 03:56:57 PM 2424 Views
Those were polls - 31/03/2010 08:46:07 PM 2430 Views
Re: Those were polls - 05/04/2010 03:22:13 PM 2355 Views
Does it gives him right to insult me? - 13/04/2011 02:10:32 PM 2416 Views
I wouldn't know. Was he speaking directly to you? - 14/04/2011 11:28:16 PM 2528 Views
He's now reviewed the third book - 26/03/2010 12:27:16 PM 2648 Views
Well, this time I must disagree with him . - 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM 2356 Views
I don't think he was claiming that RJ was alone in doing that - 29/03/2010 07:44:07 AM 2372 Views
Hah! - 29/03/2010 06:07:28 PM 2376 Views
Well... - 29/03/2010 06:52:10 PM 2301 Views
Differing perspectives, I guess. - 29/03/2010 07:58:13 PM 2482 Views
I suppose - 29/03/2010 08:50:43 PM 2408 Views
Re: I suppose - 30/03/2010 12:18:30 AM 2533 Views
True - 30/03/2010 12:23:28 AM 2388 Views
Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 12:52:01 AM 2376 Views
Re: Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 07:45:08 AM 2550 Views
But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:07:00 AM 2452 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 03:56:54 PM 2428 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:29:37 PM 2532 Views
I really liked a lot of the minor characters in The Great Hunt. - 30/03/2010 12:49:03 AM 2404 Views
I barely thought twice about those, to be honest - 30/03/2010 06:39:55 PM 2448 Views
I can't wait what he's going to try to do with TFoH and beyond - 28/03/2010 08:18:59 PM 2525 Views
Glad you enjoyed it - 29/03/2010 09:33:43 PM 2377 Views
The Shadow Rising review - 02/04/2010 09:42:53 AM 2662 Views
I wonder if this borders on trolling - 02/04/2010 02:29:58 PM 11191 Views
You want complaining? You got it... - 02/04/2010 06:38:09 PM 2523 Views
That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 09:16:25 PM 2666 Views
Re: That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 10:28:56 PM 2420 Views
I agree, Roberts is more and more coming across to me as just bitter - 10/04/2010 01:24:52 AM 2524 Views
Little late to this one as well - 10/04/2010 11:12:04 AM 2554 Views
Perhaps you should have led with this bit - 10/04/2010 02:52:23 PM 2636 Views
Re: I wonder if this borders on trolling - 04/04/2010 09:16:22 AM 2517 Views
What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 08:00:45 PM 2619 Views
Re: What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 09:22:13 PM 2617 Views
See my comment below - 02/04/2010 09:32:54 PM 2687 Views
Re: See my comment below - 03/04/2010 09:31:22 AM 3018 Views
Sorry I'm late in responding, but I've been quite busy this week - 07/04/2010 09:45:48 PM 2872 Views
Yes, I can probably agree with what you say here. - 08/04/2010 12:29:16 AM 2336 Views
- 08/04/2010 12:32:53 AM 2471 Views
I agree completely. *NM* - 02/04/2010 09:53:44 PM 1437 Views
Speaking of irritation - 02/04/2010 10:50:04 PM 2576 Views
Commentary, then? - 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM 2454 Views
Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM 2405 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:31:56 PM 2253 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 03/04/2010 01:34:05 AM 2300 Views
I somehow overlooked this last week, it seems - 10/04/2010 11:01:17 AM 2614 Views
Indeed - 02/04/2010 10:34:00 PM 2301 Views
Re: Commentary, then? - 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM 2364 Views
for a man that bitterly complains about an author who is padding his work - 08/04/2010 09:41:07 PM 2590 Views
1400 words is long-winded? - 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM 2631 Views
since you can sum up those 1400 words in about 25 yes that's longwinded - 09/04/2010 01:36:16 PM 2507 Views
Except I didn't really sum it up, as I left out quite a bit - 10/04/2010 11:15:42 AM 2528 Views
You are very defensive over this - 10/04/2010 01:54:15 PM 2329 Views
Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 03:57:12 AM 2382 Views
Re: Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 05:30:53 PM 2315 Views
You sound like a Goodkind webmaster from a couple of years ago - 12/04/2010 06:58:42 PM 2398 Views
You don't come across as a devil's advocate - 30/03/2011 03:07:32 PM 2438 Views
Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 07/04/2010 08:59:28 PM 2560 Views
I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 07/04/2010 09:50:39 PM 2452 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 08/04/2010 01:06:20 PM 2306 Views
Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 09:58:44 AM 2513 Views
Re: Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 01:26:42 PM 2537 Views
I have a very different take on that book - 10/04/2010 11:17:13 AM 2401 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 09/04/2010 01:45:44 PM 2435 Views
Hrmm... - 10/04/2010 11:19:01 AM 2265 Views
Re: Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 12/04/2010 05:37:36 PM 2497 Views
He brings up some interesting points, if in an unnecessarily rude manner - 08/04/2010 12:42:25 PM 2435 Views
To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM 2467 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM 3000 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM 2472 Views
why are you so bothered by people being unimpressed with Roberts? - 10/04/2010 02:19:08 PM 2467 Views
I don't understand it either - 11/04/2010 12:44:25 PM 2439 Views
right? - 11/04/2010 02:13:00 PM 2471 Views
Nah - 12/04/2010 04:13:44 AM 2289 Views
And in vol. 5, Roberts discovers the horrors of the circus - 09/04/2010 09:57:03 AM 2441 Views
5 reviews without saying more than "I hate the series" - 09/04/2010 01:31:13 PM 2325 Views
Basically he just states the "nothing happens"-argument... - 09/04/2010 03:26:02 PM 2337 Views
Well, what was really resolved here? - 10/04/2010 11:25:25 AM 2428 Views
Well... - 12/04/2010 05:05:20 PM 2542 Views
well exactly - 12/04/2010 05:33:11 PM 2542 Views
So very little was resolved and much was set into motion, then? - 12/04/2010 06:55:45 PM 2510 Views
Yes... - 12/04/2010 10:51:08 PM 2238 Views
Ever read Umberto Eco's How To Travel with a Salmon? - 12/04/2010 11:07:19 PM 2588 Views
I guess... - 13/04/2010 10:03:03 AM 2577 Views
Sounds like you value prolixity for the sake of prolixity, to be honest - 13/04/2010 04:41:07 PM 3696 Views
Nah... - 13/04/2010 05:29:34 PM 2254 Views
He's read and enjoyed Proust, among others - 13/04/2010 07:37:39 PM 2375 Views
Ah, well... - 13/04/2010 09:45:45 PM 2290 Views
Dismissive, much? - 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM 2494 Views
About that bifurcation... - 14/04/2010 02:02:15 AM 2453 Views
I'm rather moderate - 14/04/2010 10:11:30 AM 2370 Views
I'm just a liberation theologist at heart - 15/04/2010 01:51:16 PM 3248 Views
So, if you don't mind... - 13/04/2010 05:51:06 AM 2483 Views
That's fine with me - 13/04/2010 06:31:41 AM 2434 Views
I'm sorry, but he's totally right. "The Circus" made me put down this series for 5 YEARS. - 09/04/2010 03:38:16 PM 2452 Views
I didn't find it quite that bad, but... - 11/04/2010 08:27:52 AM 2435 Views
LoC represented a sharp drop in quality!!? - 19/05/2010 03:27:21 PM 2443 Views
And ignores everything else... - 09/04/2010 05:10:00 PM 2532 Views
Inchoatus went offline a couple of years ago - 10/04/2010 11:42:26 AM 3370 Views
This guy is going to get what he deserves... - 09/04/2010 10:26:14 PM 2405 Views
I'm waiting with bated breath for his CoT review *NM* - 10/04/2010 01:00:59 PM 1513 Views
Just wanted to point out that he is not reviewing the series. - 16/04/2010 04:04:49 PM 2342 Views
Lord of Chaos commentary - 16/04/2010 03:39:39 PM 2428 Views
He has reached - The Hump. - 16/04/2010 03:55:51 PM 2361 Views
Re: He has reached - The Hump. - 18/04/2010 08:08:59 AM 2814 Views
No no. It was Lord of Heaven! - 16/04/2010 05:51:11 PM 2312 Views
Yeah, I noticed that - 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM 2247 Views
I would love the see him review Goodkind... - 16/04/2010 11:51:07 PM 2473 Views
Finally re-read that post - 20/04/2010 09:35:45 PM 2443 Views
The magic items are mostly irrelevant... - 21/04/2010 03:37:36 AM 2412 Views
A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 23/04/2010 08:36:17 AM 2492 Views
Re: A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 29/04/2010 06:02:28 PM 2438 Views
I disagree - 29/04/2010 09:34:49 PM 2263 Views
I agree. - 29/04/2010 09:45:29 PM 2473 Views
Took me a moment to realize with whom you were agreeing - 29/04/2010 10:19:05 PM 2401 Views
Well, I did mention the necklines get overdone... - 06/05/2010 06:17:46 PM 2728 Views
Well, there's now also the tea to comment about - 07/05/2010 11:29:03 AM 2498 Views
A bit of a stumble this week - 30/04/2010 01:53:31 PM 2513 Views
The Path of Daggers commentary - 07/05/2010 10:39:03 AM 2583 Views
You'd think a Brit would like the tea... *NM* - 11/05/2010 04:05:42 PM 1386 Views
Maybe he's just a contrarian? - 11/05/2010 07:55:43 PM 2323 Views
Winter's Heart - 21/05/2010 12:46:14 PM 2568 Views
To be fair - 21/05/2010 01:56:49 PM 2673 Views
I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 21/05/2010 04:49:31 PM 2422 Views
Re: I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 25/05/2010 05:05:09 PM 2564 Views
WH was my least favorite novel in the series, and that is saying a lot. - 28/05/2010 03:15:13 PM 2397 Views
I completely agree with his KoD post. Here is my favorite quote: - 28/05/2010 03:08:31 PM 2739 Views
CoT, you mean (link to actual post included) - 28/05/2010 04:56:10 PM 2549 Views
Yep, I meant COT. *NM* - 28/05/2010 07:02:48 PM 1373 Views
Knife of Dreams - 18/06/2010 09:07:27 AM 2457 Views
Re: Knife of Dreams - 19/06/2010 05:49:38 AM 2528 Views
Agree... - 19/06/2010 05:08:44 PM 2459 Views
Roberts reflects back on WoT 1-11, with answers to questions asked of him - 25/06/2010 12:51:29 PM 2550 Views
This guy should be burned at the stake - 25/06/2010 03:22:34 PM 10032 Views
Are you done making a fool out of yourself, Mark? - 26/06/2010 06:53:37 PM 2468 Views
Oh come on... - 26/06/2010 09:06:01 PM 2536 Views
Well, the burning at the stake was a bit much... - 26/06/2010 10:19:40 PM 2535 Views
Well, really! You brought the comment to his notice... - 26/06/2010 11:34:08 PM 2533 Views
And your point is...? - 27/06/2010 12:37:00 AM 2564 Views
Well... - 27/06/2010 05:38:12 AM 2493 Views
Indeed... I think it's rather clear that Larry's goal has been to cause trouble - 27/06/2010 10:57:36 AM 2677 Views
There is no "borderline" about it. - 28/03/2011 05:17:15 PM 2353 Views
Ridiculous - 27/06/2010 06:38:46 AM 2415 Views
I like his FAQ and his overall musings on its' popularity. - 29/06/2010 06:35:10 PM 2427 Views
One year later... - 27/03/2011 03:40:29 AM 2371 Views
Re: One year later... - 28/03/2011 05:03:32 PM 2614 Views
I see you subconsciously support critical takes. - 28/03/2011 11:41:48 PM 2597 Views
No I conciously support telling you and him that you are pathetic, arrogent, & jelous. *NM* - 30/03/2011 01:40:36 PM 1444 Views
Jealous? - 30/03/2011 05:20:32 PM 2385 Views
I agree, I didn't even notice it was an old post, definitely did not deserve to be revived. *NM* - 30/03/2011 02:41:12 PM 1360 Views
Seconded. - 30/03/2011 04:04:36 PM 2330 Views
Now I notice as well that this is a year old. You're very silly, Larry, very silly. *NM* - 30/03/2011 04:13:38 PM 1479 Views
Yep! - 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM 2312 Views
Jeez Larry, you're starting to sound like a GRRM detractor. - 31/03/2011 03:01:38 PM 2499 Views
Nah, no detractor - 01/04/2011 03:00:41 PM 2508 Views
Could a thread be locked? - 31/03/2011 07:48:26 PM 2398 Views
Re: One year later... - 01/04/2011 02:55:02 AM 2774 Views
Yep - 01/04/2011 02:57:52 PM 2526 Views
He's not an "author", he's just a stupid troll, do not feed him *NM* - 30/03/2011 02:39:19 PM 1372 Views

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