Well, Roberts is known for his snark in reviews, which I did note when I posted this thread originally 

Can I claim RJ is known for his long winded stories, and that should be evident given the lengths of the books? 

You could and I believe those familiar with epic fantasies would get the joke behind that comment as well

Snark is all very well, but when that all there is, calling his pieces reviews or commentaries seems silly to me. Its like submitting all those Goodkind threads on Westeros (I don't know why, but that comparison just keeps coming back to me) as a PhD thesis on The Sword of Truth!
I don't think that's all there is to it, or else I wouldn't have posted it here (or at best, it would have been posted with a disclaimer noting that it was nothing but snark, to be taken lightly). The issues he raises about the nature of the sex/violent scenes, the way the prose is constructed, the plot branches, character development (or perceived lack thereof) are issues that are worthy of discussion. How well he explores those issues is the matter of contention, I suppose.
And yes, some of his complaints are repetitive, but perhaps some of those are due to certain perceived "defects" cropping up throughout the series? The prose certainly never gets to the "sparkling" level at any point that I recall; it did feel a bit padded throughout, to be honest. That is something that could be raised as a point about each individual volume. Whether you agree with it or not is a different matter 

Of course there are criticisms that will run common to all the books. If I were to review them, I'd have positive things to say that will repeat too. But the overall structure of review is more or less the same, with more or less the same set of complaints, with barely anything new being added by the reviewer. If the point being made is that all the books are padded, full of clumsy prose and completely lifted-off from various authors the reviewer has read, then why have 12 reviews? Wouldn't one review after all the books are done with be better?
Actually, I agree that a single overarching review would have worked better, but since he chose to review each of the 12 individually, I guess the main sticking points will be made over and over. But here's a question that just occurred to me - How much "growth" do we see in the series from a technical aspect? Is the structure of the prose and scenes relatively static, or do we see discernible shifts in how characters and situations are presented?
It isn't like there aren't other elements he cannot comment about. Even if he wants to be exclusively negative about the books, there are issues he has barely raised which many other readers have complained about. What about a look at the gender imbalances portrayed in the books? That is pretty glaringly obvious by this book. Is Jordan's whole premise ridiculous? Or is it just shoddy execution?
Those are indeed aspects I wonder if Roberts has seen. Perhaps it'll appear in a later review? If it doesn't, then I'd agree with you that it was a major oversight on his part.
What about the whole savior-as-destroyer aspect of Rand that becomes so obvious in this book? Far from Jordan's invention or anything, but certainly a departure from the Tolkein-spawn fantasies of the time.
I don't know if it's as much this book or it appears in the next two, though. But yes, this is an important issue. Question is, how well did Jordan execute this vision?
And for someone who admittedly read it hurriedly, that's grounds for dismissing his point that there are indeed those similarities? It's little different than reviewers of various epic fantasy works noting the similarities (and possible derivations) between works. Yes, it is quite likely RJ wanted to have those similarities in there to serve a different purpose than what Roberts appears to concede, but there are quite a few of them, if I recall.
Come, this is a ridiculous argument. If you gave a student a copy of the Silmarillion to review, and he skimmed through it and all he could say is that the whole fall of Morgoth story was similar to Paradise Lost, you're not going to excuse him are you?
I'd probably do what I've been trying to do online for years (and in the classroom), which is tease out elements of contention and then ask questions in such a way as to (hopefully) get the student to ask deeper questions without being told by me that s/he was wrong.
The Dune parallels are there. So are the parallels to the Jains, and a host of others. Almost certainly, some of these also played a part in Herbert's own portrayal of the Fremen. But Robert's chose the intellectually lazy way out and simply pointed out the easy parallel.
How many Anglo-Americans do you expect would make any sort of connection to the Jains? Sometimes, the xeroxed source becomes viewed as being the original source because of cultural differences/ignorance of other societies. Viewing this through the lens of privileged information makes interpreting his conclusions tricky. Yes, you are aware of those parallels, but for someone who is not and this being an issue where relatively few readers would be aware, are you interpreting his stance as being one that should reflect a deeper, more reflective understanding, an understanding that usually doesn't occur the first time something is read? It's the very fact that his WoT posts are so obviously that of someone who's never read the various arguments on the books' sources/influences that fascinates me - you don't often get that around forums like this...because oftentimes, some regulars are so used to their pet interpretations or have come to view neophyte reader interpretations as facile or just wrongheaded that sometimes they lash out at the new readers, often silencing them in the process.
Why then is his review in any way worthy of reading or commenting upon? The author clearly has no time for the book, no time to read it, no time to think about it a little before commenting. What then makes it different from the host of Amazon reviews out there except the length and the admittedly better language? Are we to read this because it is a good review, or because a Cambridge professor and author with a penchant for snark decided he needed a book to deride?
Not because of who he is and what he does, but because the perspective is different from those who post regularly on the topic. May not agree with some (or any) of it, but having such perspectives to consider from time to time can be invaluable in getting experienced readers to reflect back on their own development. Or at least I'd hope something like that would be taking place.
I think it's more of a case where there is a more graphic description of warfare and suffering (and quasi-bondage scenes later in the series) than there is a deeper exploration of the coming-of-age issues that the characters have. The emotional/romance/love parts are perhaps a weak PG compared to the PG-13 to almost R-rated violence. That is something that is interesting, to say the least. But it's probably been discussed to death here over the years, I guess?
Not really, because, as FT pointed out, in the new era of "gritty" fantasy, the Wheel of Time is fairly tame when it comes to violence.
Perhaps compared to those, but I'm comparing it to itself here.
The few times there is sex on screen, the issue is skirted about, yes. While it is certainly worth exploring why Jordan felt he needed to do that, while showing a greater (but nowhere close to gratuitous) level of detail with the violence, that is not what Robert's talks about at all. He is evidently bored by the fight scenes, which are way below the lofty levels in which his nose resides. But some raunchy sex would do very well, thank you.
I don't know if that's the case or not. Will be curious to see what he has to say to your blog comment, though.
It seems to me you are almost projecting your own (reasonable and more authentic, because you actually read the book) critique of the book on the Robert's review.
Who knows? I'm trying not to, but it may be a case where I'm downplaying certain aspects because I can see the point, even if I don't always agree with the delivery!
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie
Je suis méchant.
Je suis méchant.
Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT.
- 19/03/2010 09:30:25 PM
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Heh, While I agree with him about it being derivative, I still encourage people to read it.
- 20/03/2010 02:36:47 AM
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My problem with the reviews:
- 20/03/2010 06:29:08 AM
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Hear Hear !!!
.......................
=
........................ *NM*
- 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM
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.......................
=
........................ *NM*
- 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM
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well I agree and disagree
- 20/03/2010 06:51:29 AM
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Re: well I agree and disagree
- 20/03/2010 02:12:43 PM
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I'm amused by some of the responses
- 20/03/2010 07:20:03 PM
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Are you suggesting that we are unqualified to disagree with him ?
- 20/03/2010 11:21:44 PM
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No, I said rather that it's ridiculous to make such disparaging comments about his takes
- 20/03/2010 11:37:56 PM
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I will reply to myself: What's the problem McFly , chicken ?
- 21/03/2010 12:29:36 AM
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My sister called me chicken once
- 10/04/2010 01:18:31 AM
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Re: I'm amused by some of the responses
- 23/03/2010 04:50:42 PM
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And I'm even more amused by this response
- 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM
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- 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM
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On a completely unrelated note...
- 24/03/2010 06:15:25 AM
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Ha!
- 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM
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- 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM
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My congratulations then
. *NM*
- 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM
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. *NM*
- 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM
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Wow, you guys have completely missed the point of the Wheel of Time series
- 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM
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- 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM
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There's a point to it?
- 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM
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- 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM
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Yes, RJ has explained it at least a few times and the main sequence of each book invokes his message *NM*
- 24/03/2010 02:09:01 AM
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You're not taking me seriously now, are you?
- 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM
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- 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM
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I meant the reason why RJ wrote WoT in the first place
- 24/03/2010 06:39:47 AM
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And which, arguably, could be viewed as being done in a hackneyed way
- 24/03/2010 07:15:55 AM
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I thought the point was to write about a bunch of stuff happening?
- 09/04/2010 03:42:49 PM
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pfft wth-ever
- 26/03/2010 12:35:53 AM
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Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was
- 26/03/2010 12:28:19 PM
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bla bla bla
- 29/03/2010 06:17:07 AM
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Wow. That post was more entertaining than Mr. Roberts' review. Thank you
*NM*
- 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM
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*NM*
- 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM
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You must have low standards for entertainment
- 29/03/2010 08:54:03 AM
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Re: You must have low standards for entertainment
- 29/03/2010 09:13:44 AM
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I know you were, thus the
at the least of my comment
- 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM
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at the least of my comment
- 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM
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Unimpressed
- 29/03/2010 10:50:07 PM
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Isn't that a bit uncharitable, Dom, considering how much you approved of what I did with CoT?
- 30/03/2010 12:03:48 AM
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Re: Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was
- 29/03/2010 04:32:23 PM
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Might want to re-read their Wikis again.
- 29/03/2010 07:07:11 PM
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Awards
- 29/03/2010 07:42:03 PM
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That link is out of date
- 29/03/2010 07:54:56 PM
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Re: That link is out of date
- 29/03/2010 08:22:03 PM
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This is a battle of win/lose?
- 29/03/2010 08:47:54 PM
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Re: This is a battle of win/lose?
- 29/03/2010 09:03:07 PM
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*considers employing the Chewbacca defense*
- 29/03/2010 09:28:06 PM
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Re: *considers employing the Chewbacca defense*
- 29/03/2010 09:44:58 PM
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The final point explains the "defense"
- 30/03/2010 12:24:56 AM
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Re: The final point explains the "defense"
- 30/03/2010 01:33:04 PM
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No, no, no
- 30/03/2010 06:38:41 PM
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Re: No, no, no
- 30/03/2010 07:51:34 PM
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Still continuing, huh?
- 31/03/2010 02:10:13 AM
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Re: Still continuing, huh?
- 31/03/2010 03:56:57 PM
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He's now reviewed the third book
- 26/03/2010 12:27:16 PM
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Well, this time I must disagree with him
.
- 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM
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.
- 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM
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I don't think he was claiming that RJ was alone in doing that
- 29/03/2010 07:44:07 AM
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Hah!
- 29/03/2010 06:07:28 PM
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Well...
- 29/03/2010 06:52:10 PM
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Differing perspectives, I guess.
- 29/03/2010 07:58:13 PM
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I suppose
- 29/03/2010 08:50:43 PM
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Re: I suppose
- 30/03/2010 12:18:30 AM
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Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue?
- 30/03/2010 12:52:01 AM
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Re: Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue?
- 30/03/2010 07:45:08 AM
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But why only them?
- 30/03/2010 08:07:00 AM
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The Shadow Rising review
- 02/04/2010 09:42:53 AM
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I wonder if this borders on trolling
- 02/04/2010 02:29:58 PM
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That would be a mistake
- 02/04/2010 09:16:25 PM
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Re: That would be a mistake
- 02/04/2010 10:28:56 PM
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I agree, Roberts is more and more coming across to me as just bitter
- 10/04/2010 01:24:52 AM
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Little late to this one as well
- 10/04/2010 11:12:04 AM
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Perhaps you should have led with this bit
- 10/04/2010 02:52:23 PM
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I guess I just presumed that people would read the header to his blog
- 12/04/2010 03:54:10 AM
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- 12/04/2010 03:54:10 AM
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What review? I couldn't find one...
- 02/04/2010 08:00:45 PM
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Re: What review? I couldn't find one...
- 02/04/2010 09:22:13 PM
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See my comment below
- 02/04/2010 09:32:54 PM
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Re: See my comment below
- 03/04/2010 09:31:22 AM
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Sorry I'm late in responding, but I've been quite busy this week
- 07/04/2010 09:45:48 PM
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Speaking of irritation
- 02/04/2010 10:50:04 PM
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To be fair, even among the RaFOers there have been tons of posts that missed certain events
- 09/04/2010 03:47:30 PM
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Commentary, then?
- 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM
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- 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM
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Here's the thing...
- 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM
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Re: Here's the thing...
- 02/04/2010 10:31:56 PM
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Re: Commentary, then?
- 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM
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- 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM
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for a man that bitterly complains about an author who is padding his work
- 08/04/2010 09:41:07 PM
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1400 words is long-winded?
- 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM
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- 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM
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since you can sum up those 1400 words in about 25 yes that's longwinded
- 09/04/2010 01:36:16 PM
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Except I didn't really sum it up, as I left out quite a bit
- 10/04/2010 11:15:42 AM
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You are very defensive over this
- 10/04/2010 01:54:15 PM
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Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else
- 12/04/2010 03:57:12 AM
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Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts
- 07/04/2010 08:59:28 PM
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I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes!
- 07/04/2010 09:50:39 PM
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Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes!
- 08/04/2010 01:06:20 PM
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Which Invisible Man?
- 09/04/2010 09:58:44 AM
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He brings up some interesting points, if in an unnecessarily rude manner
- 08/04/2010 12:42:25 PM
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To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
- 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM
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- 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM
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Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
- 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM
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- 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM
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Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
- 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM
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- 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM
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why are you so bothered by people being unimpressed with Roberts?
- 10/04/2010 02:19:08 PM
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Not bothered as much as I am bemused by the ad hominems, to be honest
- 12/04/2010 04:11:12 AM
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And in vol. 5, Roberts discovers the horrors of the circus
- 09/04/2010 09:57:03 AM
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Basically he just states the "nothing happens"-argument...
- 09/04/2010 03:26:02 PM
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Well, what was really resolved here?
- 10/04/2010 11:25:25 AM
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Well...
- 12/04/2010 05:05:20 PM
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So very little was resolved and much was set into motion, then?
- 12/04/2010 06:55:45 PM
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Yes...
- 12/04/2010 10:51:08 PM
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Ever read Umberto Eco's How To Travel with a Salmon?
- 12/04/2010 11:07:19 PM
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I guess...
- 13/04/2010 10:03:03 AM
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Sounds like you value prolixity for the sake of prolixity, to be honest
- 13/04/2010 04:41:07 PM
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Nah...
- 13/04/2010 05:29:34 PM
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He's read and enjoyed Proust, among others
- 13/04/2010 07:37:39 PM
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Ah, well...
- 13/04/2010 09:45:45 PM
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Dismissive, much?
- 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM
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- 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM
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About that bifurcation...
- 14/04/2010 02:02:15 AM
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Sorry that I was busy yesterday and didn't have a chance to reply until now
- 15/04/2010 01:46:54 PM
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I'm sorry, but he's totally right. "The Circus" made me put down this series for 5 YEARS.
- 09/04/2010 03:38:16 PM
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Lord of Chaos commentary
- 16/04/2010 03:39:39 PM
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No no. It was Lord of Heaven!
- 16/04/2010 05:51:11 PM
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Yeah, I noticed that
- 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM
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- 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM
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I would love the see him review Goodkind...
- 16/04/2010 11:51:07 PM
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I don't wish that on anyone who doesn't have copious amounts of alcohol
- 16/04/2010 11:57:41 PM
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A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn?
- 23/04/2010 08:36:17 AM
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Re: A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn?
- 29/04/2010 06:02:28 PM
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I disagree
- 29/04/2010 09:34:49 PM
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The Path of Daggers commentary
- 07/05/2010 10:39:03 AM
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Winter's Heart
- 21/05/2010 12:46:14 PM
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I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read
- 21/05/2010 04:49:31 PM
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Re: I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read
- 25/05/2010 05:05:09 PM
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WH was my least favorite novel in the series, and that is saying a lot.
- 28/05/2010 03:15:13 PM
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I completely agree with his KoD post. Here is my favorite quote:
- 28/05/2010 03:08:31 PM
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Roberts reflects back on WoT 1-11, with answers to questions asked of him
- 25/06/2010 12:51:29 PM
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This guy should be burned at the stake
- 25/06/2010 03:22:34 PM
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Are you done making a fool out of yourself, Mark?
- 26/06/2010 06:53:37 PM
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Oh come on...
- 26/06/2010 09:06:01 PM
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Well, the burning at the stake was a bit much...
- 26/06/2010 10:19:40 PM
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Well, really! You brought the comment to his notice...
- 26/06/2010 11:34:08 PM
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And your point is...?
- 27/06/2010 12:37:00 AM
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Well...
- 27/06/2010 05:38:12 AM
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Indeed... I think it's rather clear that Larry's goal has been to cause trouble
- 27/06/2010 10:57:36 AM
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It's not about honour being beschmirched. It's about poor quality arguments. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 04:09:23 PM
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One year later...
- 27/03/2011 03:40:29 AM
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Re: One year later...
- 28/03/2011 05:03:32 PM
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I see you subconsciously support critical takes.
- 28/03/2011 11:41:48 PM
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No I conciously support telling you and him that you are pathetic, arrogent, & jelous. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 01:40:36 PM
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Jealous?
- 30/03/2011 05:20:32 PM
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You both are jelous of Jordan's tremendous succes.
- 30/03/2011 10:27:36 PM
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Please learn how to spell the word "jealous" before tossing it about in the cavalier fashion you do
- 30/03/2011 10:54:36 PM
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The fact that you teach is supposed to be a surprise?
- 31/03/2011 01:23:45 PM
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After reading the standard-issue checklist of generic, tossabout pejoratives...
- 01/04/2011 03:06:18 PM
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I agree, I didn't even notice it was an old post, definitely did not deserve to be revived. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 02:41:12 PM
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Now I notice as well that this is a year old. You're very silly, Larry, very silly. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 04:13:38 PM
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Yep!
- 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM
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- 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM
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He's not an "author", he's just a stupid troll, do not feed him *NM*
- 30/03/2011 02:39:19 PM
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