Jeez Larry, you're starting to sound like a GRRM detractor.
Silence_DoGood Send a noteboard - 31/03/2011 03:01:38 PM
You can spare everyone a long winded explanation on the differences between the two though. You could have posted this anywhere, and perhaps you did, but the fact that you revived it, suggests that you want to start an argument and nothing more. However, I'll indulge you because I like to debate.
Is Robert Jordan the best writer ever? No. Is the Wheel of Time the best piece of fiction ever written? No. However, it has to be judged by what it is, and not what it is not, and what it is is "escapism." When you look upon it as a piece of escapism fiction, then you'll be hard pressed to find a better series, or for that fact a better author. Sure you and everyone else can rattle off other authors, and other books but the numbers speak for themselves. Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time are king.
Robert Jordan was able to tap into something that a lot of people crave. We live in a world where we're always at work, we're always on call, we're always connected in some way. We have our cellphones in our pockets, and those phones not only receive phone calls, but emails, text messages, and photos. We have the Internet, Twitter, and Facebook, so we can be knowledgeable about everything, and everyone at all times.
As a society we work long hours, and have only a small amount of time to play. I myself work between 60-65 hours a week, and it is common for me to have to deal with problems, not only on my days off, but when I'm on vacation too. All the new technology that comes out that's supposed to make our lives easier, in other ways complicates our lives too.
At the end of the day, people have to decide how to relax, some go to the bar, others watch TV, others movies, but some read books. The majority of the books that I read are Non-Fiction, and of the Fiction that I read a smaller percentage of that is Fantasy.
When I do decide to read a fantasy novel, I'm not looking for an authors view of plant rights, animal rights, gay rights, or human rights, nor do I want to think about terrorists, bombing, or government activities. I want to forget all about that.
Basically, if I read that some author is "using" fantasy to "explore" an issue, then I won't read it. You know why? Because at the heart of it, their just an author with an opinion. Not much different than myself, so if I want to read about global warming, and whether or not it exists, then I'd rather read it without the dragons and magic.
Growing up there was a product for women called Calgon, and their motto was, "Calgon take me away." That's what I'm looking for when I decide to read a fantasy novel. To escape, to get away from the world for a while. That is what the Wheel of Time is about. That is what Robert Jordan meant it to be. To look upon it as anything else, is not to understand what your reading. Surely, your smart enough to understand that.
Let me put it this way. Right now you're all, "Rah Rahing" Adam Roberts and how he reviewed the Wheel of Time. I'm assuming though, that if your work of fiction were reviewed, and judged as escapism, that it would easily fall short. Then of course, you'd probably be upset because we were not smart enough to realize that what you wrote wasn't meant to be escapism, but something different entirely.
In the end, no ones saying that Adam Roberts can't be critical of Jordan. Neither is anyone saying that you can't agree with him. Judging by the amount of comments in this thread, no ones even saying that you can't post it and talk about it. (OK, some people have said it, but the administrators aren't stopping you.) However, with all that being said, none of that makes you right...
Is Robert Jordan the best writer ever? No. Is the Wheel of Time the best piece of fiction ever written? No. However, it has to be judged by what it is, and not what it is not, and what it is is "escapism." When you look upon it as a piece of escapism fiction, then you'll be hard pressed to find a better series, or for that fact a better author. Sure you and everyone else can rattle off other authors, and other books but the numbers speak for themselves. Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time are king.
Robert Jordan was able to tap into something that a lot of people crave. We live in a world where we're always at work, we're always on call, we're always connected in some way. We have our cellphones in our pockets, and those phones not only receive phone calls, but emails, text messages, and photos. We have the Internet, Twitter, and Facebook, so we can be knowledgeable about everything, and everyone at all times.
As a society we work long hours, and have only a small amount of time to play. I myself work between 60-65 hours a week, and it is common for me to have to deal with problems, not only on my days off, but when I'm on vacation too. All the new technology that comes out that's supposed to make our lives easier, in other ways complicates our lives too.
At the end of the day, people have to decide how to relax, some go to the bar, others watch TV, others movies, but some read books. The majority of the books that I read are Non-Fiction, and of the Fiction that I read a smaller percentage of that is Fantasy.
When I do decide to read a fantasy novel, I'm not looking for an authors view of plant rights, animal rights, gay rights, or human rights, nor do I want to think about terrorists, bombing, or government activities. I want to forget all about that.
Basically, if I read that some author is "using" fantasy to "explore" an issue, then I won't read it. You know why? Because at the heart of it, their just an author with an opinion. Not much different than myself, so if I want to read about global warming, and whether or not it exists, then I'd rather read it without the dragons and magic.
Growing up there was a product for women called Calgon, and their motto was, "Calgon take me away." That's what I'm looking for when I decide to read a fantasy novel. To escape, to get away from the world for a while. That is what the Wheel of Time is about. That is what Robert Jordan meant it to be. To look upon it as anything else, is not to understand what your reading. Surely, your smart enough to understand that.
Let me put it this way. Right now you're all, "Rah Rahing" Adam Roberts and how he reviewed the Wheel of Time. I'm assuming though, that if your work of fiction were reviewed, and judged as escapism, that it would easily fall short. Then of course, you'd probably be upset because we were not smart enough to realize that what you wrote wasn't meant to be escapism, but something different entirely.
In the end, no ones saying that Adam Roberts can't be critical of Jordan. Neither is anyone saying that you can't agree with him. Judging by the amount of comments in this thread, no ones even saying that you can't post it and talk about it. (OK, some people have said it, but the administrators aren't stopping you.) However, with all that being said, none of that makes you right...
Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT.
- 19/03/2010 09:30:25 PM
13458 Views
Heh, While I agree with him about it being derivative, I still encourage people to read it.
- 20/03/2010 02:36:47 AM
2749 Views
My problem with the reviews:
- 20/03/2010 06:29:08 AM
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Hear Hear !!!
.......................
=
........................ *NM*
- 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM
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.......................
=
........................ *NM*
- 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM
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well I agree and disagree
- 20/03/2010 06:51:29 AM
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Re: well I agree and disagree
- 20/03/2010 02:12:43 PM
2633 Views
I'm amused by some of the responses
- 20/03/2010 07:20:03 PM
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Are you suggesting that we are unqualified to disagree with him ?
- 20/03/2010 11:21:44 PM
2747 Views
No, I said rather that it's ridiculous to make such disparaging comments about his takes
- 20/03/2010 11:37:56 PM
2796 Views
I will reply to myself: What's the problem McFly , chicken ?
- 21/03/2010 12:29:36 AM
2603 Views
My sister called me chicken once
- 10/04/2010 01:18:31 AM
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Re: I'm amused by some of the responses
- 23/03/2010 04:50:42 PM
2688 Views
And I'm even more amused by this response
- 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM
2623 Views
- 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM
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On a completely unrelated note...
- 24/03/2010 06:15:25 AM
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Ha!
- 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM
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- 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM
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My congratulations then
. *NM*
- 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM
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. *NM*
- 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM
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Wow, you guys have completely missed the point of the Wheel of Time series
- 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM
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- 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM
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There's a point to it?
- 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM
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- 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM
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Yes, RJ has explained it at least a few times and the main sequence of each book invokes his message *NM*
- 24/03/2010 02:09:01 AM
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You're not taking me seriously now, are you?
- 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM
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- 24/03/2010 02:54:37 AM
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I meant the reason why RJ wrote WoT in the first place
- 24/03/2010 06:39:47 AM
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And which, arguably, could be viewed as being done in a hackneyed way
- 24/03/2010 07:15:55 AM
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I thought the point was to write about a bunch of stuff happening?
- 09/04/2010 03:42:49 PM
2628 Views
pfft wth-ever
- 26/03/2010 12:35:53 AM
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Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was
- 26/03/2010 12:28:19 PM
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bla bla bla
- 29/03/2010 06:17:07 AM
2598 Views
Wow. That post was more entertaining than Mr. Roberts' review. Thank you
*NM*
- 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM
1739 Views
*NM*
- 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM
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You must have low standards for entertainment
- 29/03/2010 08:54:03 AM
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Re: You must have low standards for entertainment
- 29/03/2010 09:13:44 AM
2636 Views
I know you were, thus the
at the least of my comment
- 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM
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at the least of my comment
- 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM
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Unimpressed
- 29/03/2010 10:50:07 PM
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Isn't that a bit uncharitable, Dom, considering how much you approved of what I did with CoT?
- 30/03/2010 12:03:48 AM
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Re: Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was
- 29/03/2010 04:32:23 PM
2666 Views
Might want to re-read their Wikis again.
- 29/03/2010 07:07:11 PM
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Awards
- 29/03/2010 07:42:03 PM
2434 Views
That link is out of date
- 29/03/2010 07:54:56 PM
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Re: That link is out of date
- 29/03/2010 08:22:03 PM
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This is a battle of win/lose?
- 29/03/2010 08:47:54 PM
2457 Views
Re: This is a battle of win/lose?
- 29/03/2010 09:03:07 PM
2505 Views
*considers employing the Chewbacca defense*
- 29/03/2010 09:28:06 PM
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Re: *considers employing the Chewbacca defense*
- 29/03/2010 09:44:58 PM
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The final point explains the "defense"
- 30/03/2010 12:24:56 AM
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Re: The final point explains the "defense"
- 30/03/2010 01:33:04 PM
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No, no, no
- 30/03/2010 06:38:41 PM
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Re: No, no, no
- 30/03/2010 07:51:34 PM
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Still continuing, huh?
- 31/03/2010 02:10:13 AM
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Re: Still continuing, huh?
- 31/03/2010 03:56:57 PM
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He's now reviewed the third book
- 26/03/2010 12:27:16 PM
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Well, this time I must disagree with him
.
- 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM
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.
- 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM
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I don't think he was claiming that RJ was alone in doing that
- 29/03/2010 07:44:07 AM
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Hah!
- 29/03/2010 06:07:28 PM
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Well...
- 29/03/2010 06:52:10 PM
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Differing perspectives, I guess.
- 29/03/2010 07:58:13 PM
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I suppose
- 29/03/2010 08:50:43 PM
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Re: I suppose
- 30/03/2010 12:18:30 AM
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Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue?
- 30/03/2010 12:52:01 AM
2411 Views
Re: Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue?
- 30/03/2010 07:45:08 AM
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But why only them?
- 30/03/2010 08:07:00 AM
2500 Views
The Shadow Rising review
- 02/04/2010 09:42:53 AM
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I wonder if this borders on trolling
- 02/04/2010 02:29:58 PM
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That would be a mistake
- 02/04/2010 09:16:25 PM
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Re: That would be a mistake
- 02/04/2010 10:28:56 PM
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I agree, Roberts is more and more coming across to me as just bitter
- 10/04/2010 01:24:52 AM
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Little late to this one as well
- 10/04/2010 11:12:04 AM
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Perhaps you should have led with this bit
- 10/04/2010 02:52:23 PM
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I guess I just presumed that people would read the header to his blog
- 12/04/2010 03:54:10 AM
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- 12/04/2010 03:54:10 AM
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What review? I couldn't find one...
- 02/04/2010 08:00:45 PM
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Re: What review? I couldn't find one...
- 02/04/2010 09:22:13 PM
2657 Views
See my comment below
- 02/04/2010 09:32:54 PM
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Re: See my comment below
- 03/04/2010 09:31:22 AM
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Sorry I'm late in responding, but I've been quite busy this week
- 07/04/2010 09:45:48 PM
2908 Views
Speaking of irritation
- 02/04/2010 10:50:04 PM
2613 Views
To be fair, even among the RaFOers there have been tons of posts that missed certain events
- 09/04/2010 03:47:30 PM
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Commentary, then?
- 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM
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- 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM
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Here's the thing...
- 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM
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Re: Here's the thing...
- 02/04/2010 10:31:56 PM
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Re: Commentary, then?
- 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM
2399 Views
- 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM
2399 Views
for a man that bitterly complains about an author who is padding his work
- 08/04/2010 09:41:07 PM
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1400 words is long-winded?
- 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM
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- 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM
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since you can sum up those 1400 words in about 25 yes that's longwinded
- 09/04/2010 01:36:16 PM
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Except I didn't really sum it up, as I left out quite a bit
- 10/04/2010 11:15:42 AM
2573 Views
You are very defensive over this
- 10/04/2010 01:54:15 PM
2362 Views
Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else
- 12/04/2010 03:57:12 AM
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Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts
- 07/04/2010 08:59:28 PM
2599 Views
I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes!
- 07/04/2010 09:50:39 PM
2486 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes!
- 08/04/2010 01:06:20 PM
2347 Views
Which Invisible Man?
- 09/04/2010 09:58:44 AM
2549 Views
He brings up some interesting points, if in an unnecessarily rude manner
- 08/04/2010 12:42:25 PM
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To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
- 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM
2506 Views
- 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM
2506 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
- 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM
3031 Views
- 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM
3031 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much
- 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM
2512 Views
- 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM
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why are you so bothered by people being unimpressed with Roberts?
- 10/04/2010 02:19:08 PM
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Not bothered as much as I am bemused by the ad hominems, to be honest
- 12/04/2010 04:11:12 AM
2808 Views
And in vol. 5, Roberts discovers the horrors of the circus
- 09/04/2010 09:57:03 AM
2480 Views
Basically he just states the "nothing happens"-argument...
- 09/04/2010 03:26:02 PM
2367 Views
Well, what was really resolved here?
- 10/04/2010 11:25:25 AM
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Well...
- 12/04/2010 05:05:20 PM
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So very little was resolved and much was set into motion, then?
- 12/04/2010 06:55:45 PM
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Yes...
- 12/04/2010 10:51:08 PM
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Ever read Umberto Eco's How To Travel with a Salmon?
- 12/04/2010 11:07:19 PM
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I guess...
- 13/04/2010 10:03:03 AM
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Sounds like you value prolixity for the sake of prolixity, to be honest
- 13/04/2010 04:41:07 PM
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Nah...
- 13/04/2010 05:29:34 PM
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He's read and enjoyed Proust, among others
- 13/04/2010 07:37:39 PM
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Ah, well...
- 13/04/2010 09:45:45 PM
2334 Views
Dismissive, much?
- 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM
2524 Views
- 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM
2524 Views
About that bifurcation...
- 14/04/2010 02:02:15 AM
2490 Views
Sorry that I was busy yesterday and didn't have a chance to reply until now
- 15/04/2010 01:46:54 PM
2619 Views
I'm sorry, but he's totally right. "The Circus" made me put down this series for 5 YEARS.
- 09/04/2010 03:38:16 PM
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Lord of Chaos commentary
- 16/04/2010 03:39:39 PM
2471 Views
No no. It was Lord of Heaven!
- 16/04/2010 05:51:11 PM
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Yeah, I noticed that
- 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM
2286 Views
- 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM
2286 Views
I would love the see him review Goodkind...
- 16/04/2010 11:51:07 PM
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I don't wish that on anyone who doesn't have copious amounts of alcohol
- 16/04/2010 11:57:41 PM
2422 Views
A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn?
- 23/04/2010 08:36:17 AM
2534 Views
Re: A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn?
- 29/04/2010 06:02:28 PM
2471 Views
I disagree
- 29/04/2010 09:34:49 PM
2301 Views
The Path of Daggers commentary
- 07/05/2010 10:39:03 AM
2625 Views
Winter's Heart
- 21/05/2010 12:46:14 PM
2605 Views
I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read
- 21/05/2010 04:49:31 PM
2452 Views
Re: I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read
- 25/05/2010 05:05:09 PM
2598 Views
WH was my least favorite novel in the series, and that is saying a lot.
- 28/05/2010 03:15:13 PM
2435 Views
I completely agree with his KoD post. Here is my favorite quote:
- 28/05/2010 03:08:31 PM
2776 Views
Roberts reflects back on WoT 1-11, with answers to questions asked of him
- 25/06/2010 12:51:29 PM
2587 Views
This guy should be burned at the stake
- 25/06/2010 03:22:34 PM
10071 Views
Are you done making a fool out of yourself, Mark?
- 26/06/2010 06:53:37 PM
2505 Views
Oh come on...
- 26/06/2010 09:06:01 PM
2567 Views
Well, the burning at the stake was a bit much...
- 26/06/2010 10:19:40 PM
2577 Views
Well, really! You brought the comment to his notice...
- 26/06/2010 11:34:08 PM
2581 Views
And your point is...?
- 27/06/2010 12:37:00 AM
2605 Views
Well...
- 27/06/2010 05:38:12 AM
2531 Views
Indeed... I think it's rather clear that Larry's goal has been to cause trouble
- 27/06/2010 10:57:36 AM
2714 Views
It's not about honour being beschmirched. It's about poor quality arguments. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 04:09:23 PM
1424 Views
One year later...
- 27/03/2011 03:40:29 AM
2409 Views
Re: One year later...
- 28/03/2011 05:03:32 PM
2660 Views
I see you subconsciously support critical takes.
- 28/03/2011 11:41:48 PM
2631 Views
No I conciously support telling you and him that you are pathetic, arrogent, & jelous. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 01:40:36 PM
1465 Views
Jealous?
- 30/03/2011 05:20:32 PM
2431 Views
You both are jelous of Jordan's tremendous succes.
- 30/03/2011 10:27:36 PM
2415 Views
Please learn how to spell the word "jealous" before tossing it about in the cavalier fashion you do
- 30/03/2011 10:54:36 PM
2454 Views
The fact that you teach is supposed to be a surprise?
- 31/03/2011 01:23:45 PM
2374 Views
After reading the standard-issue checklist of generic, tossabout pejoratives...
- 01/04/2011 03:06:18 PM
2521 Views
I agree, I didn't even notice it was an old post, definitely did not deserve to be revived. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 02:41:12 PM
1375 Views
Now I notice as well that this is a year old. You're very silly, Larry, very silly. *NM*
- 30/03/2011 04:13:38 PM
1497 Views
Yep!
- 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM
2343 Views
- 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM
2343 Views
Jeez Larry, you're starting to sound like a GRRM detractor.
- 31/03/2011 03:01:38 PM
2542 Views
He's not an "author", he's just a stupid troll, do not feed him *NM*
- 30/03/2011 02:39:19 PM
1390 Views

