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Jeez Larry, you're starting to sound like a GRRM detractor. Silence_DoGood Send a noteboard - 31/03/2011 03:01:38 PM
You can spare everyone a long winded explanation on the differences between the two though. You could have posted this anywhere, and perhaps you did, but the fact that you revived it, suggests that you want to start an argument and nothing more. However, I'll indulge you because I like to debate.

Is Robert Jordan the best writer ever? No. Is the Wheel of Time the best piece of fiction ever written? No. However, it has to be judged by what it is, and not what it is not, and what it is is "escapism." When you look upon it as a piece of escapism fiction, then you'll be hard pressed to find a better series, or for that fact a better author. Sure you and everyone else can rattle off other authors, and other books but the numbers speak for themselves. Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time are king.

Robert Jordan was able to tap into something that a lot of people crave. We live in a world where we're always at work, we're always on call, we're always connected in some way. We have our cellphones in our pockets, and those phones not only receive phone calls, but emails, text messages, and photos. We have the Internet, Twitter, and Facebook, so we can be knowledgeable about everything, and everyone at all times.

As a society we work long hours, and have only a small amount of time to play. I myself work between 60-65 hours a week, and it is common for me to have to deal with problems, not only on my days off, but when I'm on vacation too. All the new technology that comes out that's supposed to make our lives easier, in other ways complicates our lives too.

At the end of the day, people have to decide how to relax, some go to the bar, others watch TV, others movies, but some read books. The majority of the books that I read are Non-Fiction, and of the Fiction that I read a smaller percentage of that is Fantasy.

When I do decide to read a fantasy novel, I'm not looking for an authors view of plant rights, animal rights, gay rights, or human rights, nor do I want to think about terrorists, bombing, or government activities. I want to forget all about that.

Basically, if I read that some author is "using" fantasy to "explore" an issue, then I won't read it. You know why? Because at the heart of it, their just an author with an opinion. Not much different than myself, so if I want to read about global warming, and whether or not it exists, then I'd rather read it without the dragons and magic.

Growing up there was a product for women called Calgon, and their motto was, "Calgon take me away." That's what I'm looking for when I decide to read a fantasy novel. To escape, to get away from the world for a while. That is what the Wheel of Time is about. That is what Robert Jordan meant it to be. To look upon it as anything else, is not to understand what your reading. Surely, your smart enough to understand that.

Let me put it this way. Right now you're all, "Rah Rahing" Adam Roberts and how he reviewed the Wheel of Time. I'm assuming though, that if your work of fiction were reviewed, and judged as escapism, that it would easily fall short. Then of course, you'd probably be upset because we were not smart enough to realize that what you wrote wasn't meant to be escapism, but something different entirely.

In the end, no ones saying that Adam Roberts can't be critical of Jordan. Neither is anyone saying that you can't agree with him. Judging by the amount of comments in this thread, no ones even saying that you can't post it and talk about it. (OK, some people have said it, but the administrators aren't stopping you.) However, with all that being said, none of that makes you right...



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Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 19/03/2010 09:30:25 PM 9861 Views
A question for Larry - 19/03/2010 09:40:37 PM 2045 Views
Roberto BolaƱo - 19/03/2010 11:09:57 PM 1813 Views
I completely agree with his review. - 19/03/2010 11:11:17 PM 1979 Views
Ouch! Somebody pull that guy off RJ! *NM* - 20/03/2010 03:47:07 AM 877 Views
Can't say that I really disagree. - 20/03/2010 05:19:26 AM 1363 Views
My problem with the reviews: - 20/03/2010 06:29:08 AM 1909 Views
Hear Hear !!! ....................... = ........................ *NM* - 20/03/2010 06:37:11 AM 852 Views
I agree - 20/03/2010 11:19:29 AM 1436 Views
You know what else I'm finding annoying? - 07/04/2010 07:29:37 AM 1375 Views
Fully Agree *NM* - 21/06/2010 12:41:05 AM 743 Views
well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 06:51:29 AM 1723 Views
Re: well I agree and disagree - 20/03/2010 02:12:43 PM 1270 Views
I'd say just The Eye of the World - 20/03/2010 05:26:19 PM 1263 Views
Indeed - 21/03/2010 12:34:19 AM 1277 Views
These reviews are pathetic - 20/03/2010 12:52:22 PM 1263 Views
I'm amused by some of the responses - 20/03/2010 07:20:03 PM 1616 Views
+1 *NM* - 20/03/2010 10:48:14 PM 837 Views
Are you suggesting that we are unqualified to disagree with him ? - 20/03/2010 11:21:44 PM 1434 Views
No, I said rather that it's ridiculous to make such disparaging comments about his takes - 20/03/2010 11:37:56 PM 1469 Views
I considered doing so - 21/03/2010 12:27:27 AM 1254 Views
I will reply to myself: What's the problem McFly , chicken ? - 21/03/2010 12:29:36 AM 1210 Views
My sister called me chicken once - 10/04/2010 01:18:31 AM 1256 Views
what's wrong runt... are you yellah? *NM* - 10/04/2010 10:40:16 AM 837 Views
NICE! *NM* - 10/04/2010 02:19:44 PM 694 Views
Re: I'm amused by some of the responses - 23/03/2010 04:50:42 PM 1351 Views
And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 01:11:50 AM 1274 Views
Re: And I'm even more amused by this response - 24/03/2010 03:03:28 AM 1159 Views
Nah, TGS was the only serious review of the series I've done - 24/03/2010 04:31:28 AM 1197 Views
On a completely unrelated note... - 24/03/2010 06:15:25 AM 1064 Views
Ha! - 24/03/2010 06:34:48 AM 1218 Views
My congratulations then . *NM* - 24/03/2010 06:36:11 AM 1108 Views
You say it as if I had been condemned to hell! - 24/03/2010 07:13:45 AM 1034 Views
No. Well, maybe. - 24/03/2010 06:52:28 PM 1119 Views
! - 24/03/2010 06:54:34 PM 1174 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 22/03/2010 02:47:23 PM 1231 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 01:53:16 PM 1240 Views
Wow, you guys have completely missed the point of the Wheel of Time series - 22/03/2010 05:28:07 PM 1294 Views
There's a point to it? - 22/03/2010 06:47:12 PM 1290 Views
I thought the point was to write about a bunch of stuff happening? - 09/04/2010 03:42:49 PM 1278 Views
Re: Author Adam Roberts tackled the WoT. - 23/03/2010 04:54:38 PM 1210 Views
pfft wth-ever - 26/03/2010 12:35:53 AM 1080 Views
Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 26/03/2010 12:28:19 PM 1317 Views
bla bla bla - 29/03/2010 06:17:07 AM 1186 Views
Usually, it's spelled "blah" - 29/03/2010 07:03:51 AM 1210 Views
Wow. That post was more entertaining than Mr. Roberts' review. Thank you *NM* - 29/03/2010 08:23:41 AM 1040 Views
You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 08:54:03 AM 1171 Views
Re: You must have low standards for entertainment - 29/03/2010 09:13:44 AM 1283 Views
I know you were, thus the at the least of my comment - 29/03/2010 09:19:30 AM 1170 Views
Unimpressed - 29/03/2010 10:50:07 PM 1528 Views
Thank you - 30/03/2010 12:35:39 AM 1108 Views
*Standing ovation for DomA* - 30/03/2010 07:36:59 AM 1303 Views
Yes. Also, Roberts is a wanker. *NM* - 05/04/2010 09:28:57 PM 857 Views
Re: Dude's been up for more awards for his writing than RJ ever was - 29/03/2010 04:32:23 PM 1276 Views
Might want to re-read their Wikis again. - 29/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 1171 Views
Awards - 29/03/2010 07:42:03 PM 1150 Views
That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 07:54:56 PM 1123 Views
Re: That link is out of date - 29/03/2010 08:22:03 PM 1252 Views
This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 08:47:54 PM 1179 Views
Re: This is a battle of win/lose? - 29/03/2010 09:03:07 PM 1235 Views
*considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:28:06 PM 1207 Views
Re: *considers employing the Chewbacca defense* - 29/03/2010 09:44:58 PM 1240 Views
The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 12:24:56 AM 1090 Views
Re: The final point explains the "defense" - 30/03/2010 01:33:04 PM 1086 Views
No, no, no - 30/03/2010 06:38:41 PM 1157 Views
Re: No, no, no - 30/03/2010 07:51:34 PM 1206 Views
Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 02:10:13 AM 1206 Views
Re: Still continuing, huh? - 31/03/2010 03:56:57 PM 1128 Views
Those were polls - 31/03/2010 08:46:07 PM 1147 Views
Re: Those were polls - 05/04/2010 03:22:13 PM 1093 Views
Does it gives him right to insult me? - 13/04/2011 02:10:32 PM 1096 Views
I wouldn't know. Was he speaking directly to you? - 14/04/2011 11:28:16 PM 1261 Views
He's now reviewed the third book - 26/03/2010 12:27:16 PM 1318 Views
Well, this time I must disagree with him . - 29/03/2010 07:31:40 AM 1152 Views
I don't think he was claiming that RJ was alone in doing that - 29/03/2010 07:44:07 AM 1114 Views
Hah! - 29/03/2010 06:07:28 PM 1118 Views
Well... - 29/03/2010 06:52:10 PM 1104 Views
Differing perspectives, I guess. - 29/03/2010 07:58:13 PM 1179 Views
I suppose - 29/03/2010 08:50:43 PM 1117 Views
Re: I suppose - 30/03/2010 12:18:30 AM 1275 Views
True - 30/03/2010 12:23:28 AM 1112 Views
Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 12:52:01 AM 1023 Views
Re: Hey, DomA, do you know why the Shienarans randomly speak in the Old Tongue? - 30/03/2010 07:45:08 AM 1157 Views
But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:07:00 AM 1190 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 03:56:54 PM 1134 Views
Re: But why only them? - 30/03/2010 08:29:37 PM 1220 Views
I really liked a lot of the minor characters in The Great Hunt. - 30/03/2010 12:49:03 AM 1199 Views
I barely thought twice about those, to be honest - 30/03/2010 06:39:55 PM 1176 Views
I can't wait what he's going to try to do with TFoH and beyond - 28/03/2010 08:18:59 PM 1213 Views
Glad you enjoyed it - 29/03/2010 09:33:43 PM 1055 Views
The Shadow Rising review - 02/04/2010 09:42:53 AM 1303 Views
I wonder if this borders on trolling - 02/04/2010 02:29:58 PM 9921 Views
You want complaining? You got it... - 02/04/2010 06:38:09 PM 1210 Views
That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 09:16:25 PM 1382 Views
Re: That would be a mistake - 02/04/2010 10:28:56 PM 1098 Views
I agree, Roberts is more and more coming across to me as just bitter - 10/04/2010 01:24:52 AM 1241 Views
Little late to this one as well - 10/04/2010 11:12:04 AM 1284 Views
Perhaps you should have led with this bit - 10/04/2010 02:52:23 PM 1338 Views
Re: I wonder if this borders on trolling - 04/04/2010 09:16:22 AM 1186 Views
What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 08:00:45 PM 1378 Views
Re: What review? I couldn't find one... - 02/04/2010 09:22:13 PM 1346 Views
See my comment below - 02/04/2010 09:32:54 PM 1340 Views
Re: See my comment below - 03/04/2010 09:31:22 AM 1762 Views
Sorry I'm late in responding, but I've been quite busy this week - 07/04/2010 09:45:48 PM 1563 Views
Yes, I can probably agree with what you say here. - 08/04/2010 12:29:16 AM 1066 Views
- 08/04/2010 12:32:53 AM 1158 Views
I agree completely. *NM* - 02/04/2010 09:53:44 PM 741 Views
Speaking of irritation - 02/04/2010 10:50:04 PM 1326 Views
Commentary, then? - 02/04/2010 09:27:18 PM 1159 Views
Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:11:18 PM 1160 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 02/04/2010 10:31:56 PM 1037 Views
Re: Here's the thing... - 03/04/2010 01:34:05 AM 1077 Views
I somehow overlooked this last week, it seems - 10/04/2010 11:01:17 AM 1358 Views
Indeed - 02/04/2010 10:34:00 PM 1028 Views
Re: Commentary, then? - 05/04/2010 03:44:07 PM 1122 Views
for a man that bitterly complains about an author who is padding his work - 08/04/2010 09:41:07 PM 1274 Views
1400 words is long-winded? - 09/04/2010 10:07:41 AM 1328 Views
since you can sum up those 1400 words in about 25 yes that's longwinded - 09/04/2010 01:36:16 PM 1190 Views
Except I didn't really sum it up, as I left out quite a bit - 10/04/2010 11:15:42 AM 1260 Views
You are very defensive over this - 10/04/2010 01:54:15 PM 1032 Views
Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 03:57:12 AM 1106 Views
Re: Nah, more of a devil's advocate than anything else - 12/04/2010 05:30:53 PM 1039 Views
You sound like a Goodkind webmaster from a couple of years ago - 12/04/2010 06:58:42 PM 1123 Views
You don't come across as a devil's advocate - 30/03/2011 03:07:32 PM 1064 Views
Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 07/04/2010 08:59:28 PM 1222 Views
I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 07/04/2010 09:50:39 PM 1156 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 08/04/2010 01:06:20 PM 1032 Views
Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 09:58:44 AM 1228 Views
Re: Which Invisible Man? - 09/04/2010 01:26:42 PM 1136 Views
I have a very different take on that book - 10/04/2010 11:17:13 AM 1107 Views
Re: I demand a paragraph by paragraph review, with footnotes! - 09/04/2010 01:45:44 PM 1182 Views
Hrmm... - 10/04/2010 11:19:01 AM 992 Views
Re: Well Larry I have started reading Gradsil by Adam Roberts - 12/04/2010 05:37:36 PM 1206 Views
He brings up some interesting points, if in an unnecessarily rude manner - 08/04/2010 12:42:25 PM 1163 Views
To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 10:05:49 AM 1191 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 09/04/2010 01:28:17 PM 1706 Views
Re: To be honest, I doubt most readers of the series obsess over it that much - 10/04/2010 11:40:22 AM 1104 Views
why are you so bothered by people being unimpressed with Roberts? - 10/04/2010 02:19:08 PM 1224 Views
I don't understand it either - 11/04/2010 12:44:25 PM 1188 Views
right? - 11/04/2010 02:13:00 PM 1198 Views
Nah - 12/04/2010 04:13:44 AM 992 Views
And in vol. 5, Roberts discovers the horrors of the circus - 09/04/2010 09:57:03 AM 1118 Views
5 reviews without saying more than "I hate the series" - 09/04/2010 01:31:13 PM 1052 Views
Basically he just states the "nothing happens"-argument... - 09/04/2010 03:26:02 PM 1037 Views
Well, what was really resolved here? - 10/04/2010 11:25:25 AM 1053 Views
Well... - 12/04/2010 05:05:20 PM 1250 Views
well exactly - 12/04/2010 05:33:11 PM 1272 Views
So very little was resolved and much was set into motion, then? - 12/04/2010 06:55:45 PM 1214 Views
Yes... - 12/04/2010 10:51:08 PM 1007 Views
Ever read Umberto Eco's How To Travel with a Salmon? - 12/04/2010 11:07:19 PM 1214 Views
I guess... - 13/04/2010 10:03:03 AM 1264 Views
Sounds like you value prolixity for the sake of prolixity, to be honest - 13/04/2010 04:41:07 PM 2420 Views
Nah... - 13/04/2010 05:29:34 PM 1022 Views
He's read and enjoyed Proust, among others - 13/04/2010 07:37:39 PM 1063 Views
Ah, well... - 13/04/2010 09:45:45 PM 1039 Views
Dismissive, much? - 13/04/2010 10:52:30 PM 1187 Views
About that bifurcation... - 14/04/2010 02:02:15 AM 1158 Views
I'm rather moderate - 14/04/2010 10:11:30 AM 1068 Views
I'm just a liberation theologist at heart - 15/04/2010 01:51:16 PM 1992 Views
So, if you don't mind... - 13/04/2010 05:51:06 AM 1145 Views
That's fine with me - 13/04/2010 06:31:41 AM 1112 Views
I'm sorry, but he's totally right. "The Circus" made me put down this series for 5 YEARS. - 09/04/2010 03:38:16 PM 1126 Views
I didn't find it quite that bad, but... - 11/04/2010 08:27:52 AM 1035 Views
LoC represented a sharp drop in quality!!? - 19/05/2010 03:27:21 PM 1153 Views
And ignores everything else... - 09/04/2010 05:10:00 PM 1214 Views
Inchoatus went offline a couple of years ago - 10/04/2010 11:42:26 AM 2109 Views
This guy is going to get what he deserves... - 09/04/2010 10:26:14 PM 1117 Views
I'm waiting with bated breath for his CoT review *NM* - 10/04/2010 01:00:59 PM 831 Views
Just wanted to point out that he is not reviewing the series. - 16/04/2010 04:04:49 PM 1140 Views
Lord of Chaos commentary - 16/04/2010 03:39:39 PM 1144 Views
He has reached - The Hump. - 16/04/2010 03:55:51 PM 1107 Views
Re: He has reached - The Hump. - 18/04/2010 08:08:59 AM 1307 Views
No no. It was Lord of Heaven! - 16/04/2010 05:51:11 PM 1062 Views
Yeah, I noticed that - 16/04/2010 11:16:26 PM 983 Views
I would love the see him review Goodkind... - 16/04/2010 11:51:07 PM 1157 Views
Finally re-read that post - 20/04/2010 09:35:45 PM 1101 Views
The magic items are mostly irrelevant... - 21/04/2010 03:37:36 AM 1118 Views
A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 23/04/2010 08:36:17 AM 1215 Views
Re: A Crown of Swords - or is it deco-porn? - 29/04/2010 06:02:28 PM 1114 Views
I disagree - 29/04/2010 09:34:49 PM 990 Views
I agree. - 29/04/2010 09:45:29 PM 1174 Views
Took me a moment to realize with whom you were agreeing - 29/04/2010 10:19:05 PM 1082 Views
Well, I did mention the necklines get overdone... - 06/05/2010 06:17:46 PM 1419 Views
Well, there's now also the tea to comment about - 07/05/2010 11:29:03 AM 1167 Views
A bit of a stumble this week - 30/04/2010 01:53:31 PM 1213 Views
The Path of Daggers commentary - 07/05/2010 10:39:03 AM 1196 Views
You'd think a Brit would like the tea... *NM* - 11/05/2010 04:05:42 PM 726 Views
Maybe he's just a contrarian? - 11/05/2010 07:55:43 PM 1052 Views
Winter's Heart - 21/05/2010 12:46:14 PM 1201 Views
To be fair - 21/05/2010 01:56:49 PM 1301 Views
I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 21/05/2010 04:49:31 PM 1104 Views
Re: I think WH was my least favorite of the WoT novels I re-read - 25/05/2010 05:05:09 PM 1287 Views
WH was my least favorite novel in the series, and that is saying a lot. - 28/05/2010 03:15:13 PM 1201 Views
I completely agree with his KoD post. Here is my favorite quote: - 28/05/2010 03:08:31 PM 1371 Views
CoT, you mean (link to actual post included) - 28/05/2010 04:56:10 PM 1216 Views
Yep, I meant COT. *NM* - 28/05/2010 07:02:48 PM 704 Views
Knife of Dreams - 18/06/2010 09:07:27 AM 1123 Views
Re: Knife of Dreams - 19/06/2010 05:49:38 AM 1197 Views
Agree... - 19/06/2010 05:08:44 PM 1182 Views
Roberts reflects back on WoT 1-11, with answers to questions asked of him - 25/06/2010 12:51:29 PM 1195 Views
This guy should be burned at the stake - 25/06/2010 03:22:34 PM 8587 Views
Are you done making a fool out of yourself, Mark? - 26/06/2010 06:53:37 PM 1156 Views
Oh come on... - 26/06/2010 09:06:01 PM 1281 Views
Well, the burning at the stake was a bit much... - 26/06/2010 10:19:40 PM 1267 Views
Well, really! You brought the comment to his notice... - 26/06/2010 11:34:08 PM 1223 Views
And your point is...? - 27/06/2010 12:37:00 AM 1300 Views
Well... - 27/06/2010 05:38:12 AM 1245 Views
Indeed... I think it's rather clear that Larry's goal has been to cause trouble - 27/06/2010 10:57:36 AM 1382 Views
There is no "borderline" about it. - 28/03/2011 05:17:15 PM 1127 Views
Ridiculous - 27/06/2010 06:38:46 AM 1155 Views
I like his FAQ and his overall musings on its' popularity. - 29/06/2010 06:35:10 PM 1223 Views
One year later... - 27/03/2011 03:40:29 AM 1135 Views
Re: One year later... - 28/03/2011 05:03:32 PM 1069 Views
I see you subconsciously support critical takes. - 28/03/2011 11:41:48 PM 1362 Views
No I conciously support telling you and him that you are pathetic, arrogent, & jelous. *NM* - 30/03/2011 01:40:36 PM 788 Views
Jealous? - 30/03/2011 05:20:32 PM 1120 Views
I agree, I didn't even notice it was an old post, definitely did not deserve to be revived. *NM* - 30/03/2011 02:41:12 PM 692 Views
Seconded. - 30/03/2011 04:04:36 PM 1020 Views
Now I notice as well that this is a year old. You're very silly, Larry, very silly. *NM* - 30/03/2011 04:13:38 PM 735 Views
Yep! - 30/03/2011 05:16:38 PM 1051 Views
Jeez Larry, you're starting to sound like a GRRM detractor. - 31/03/2011 03:01:38 PM 1157 Views
Nah, no detractor - 01/04/2011 03:00:41 PM 1275 Views
Could a thread be locked? - 31/03/2011 07:48:26 PM 1037 Views
Re: One year later... - 01/04/2011 02:55:02 AM 1304 Views
Yep - 01/04/2011 02:57:52 PM 1214 Views

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